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View Poll Results: Was America founded as a Christian nation?
Yes 37 25.69%
No 94 65.28%
other (please explain) 13 9.03%
Voters: 144. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 27th, 2016, 07:03 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by JoanOfArc007 View Post
That is not entirely true about Lenin and religion. On its face Lenin may have appeared to dislike religion. At the same time Lenin for example... passionately defended the rights of Jews. Lenin also(according to wiki) protected a Muslim communist who some Russians felt was talking things to far.


In some ways, Lenin was close in thought to the founding fathers of the USA.
I think you are taking things too far.
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Old April 27th, 2016, 07:13 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by KIVALO View Post
If a majority of the population share a specific religion but the government is expressly forbidden from forcing or endorsing a specific religion upon the people it may seem as though we are a/n (insert preferred religion here) nation but it only seems that way. The very fact that the government is forced to allow the free practice of any religion or no religion means we are not a/n (insert preferred religion here) nation.

I see the point your trying to make and I will concede it can look very much like a Christian nation. However without an established or official religion I don't think we can call ourselves a christian nation except in the most laymen or broadest of meanings.
Which is what was meant. You are not really arguing whether the United States was a Christian Nation but whether it was a theocracy. Which is clearly not what is meant.
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Old April 27th, 2016, 07:26 AM   #43
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The United States was not founded as a Christian nation, but it was a Christian nation nonetheless. Whether Congregationalist or Reformed in New England; Anglican-Episcopalian in Virginia; Catholic in Maryland; Anabaptist, Lutheran or Quaker in Pennsylvania, or Presbyterian on much of the frontier, they were Christian in their outlook and mores, if not at all times in their religious observance.

Deists of the 18th century, although theologically skeptical, did not discard Christian views of behavior and values. And all those above, as all people do, acted and rationalized how those views and values applied according to their own individual and group interests.

America (and south as well as north) is a cultural extension of western civilization - which is Christian civilization - as a cultural marker of how people identify themselves.
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Old April 27th, 2016, 07:44 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by pikeshot1600 View Post
The United States was not founded as a Christian nation, but it was a Christian nation nonetheless. Whether Congregationalist or Reformed in New England; Anglican-Episcopalian in Virginia; Catholic in Maryland; Anabaptist, Lutheran or Quaker in Pennsylvania, or Presbyterian on much of the frontier, they were Christian in their outlook and mores, if not at all times in their religious observance.

Deists of the 18th century, although theologically skeptical, did not discard Christian views of behavior and values. And all those above, as all people do, acted and rationalized how those views and values applied according to their own individual and group interests.

America (and south as well as north) is a cultural extension of western civilization - which is Christian civilization - as a cultural marker of how people identify themselves.
Excellent.
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Old April 27th, 2016, 08:46 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Recusant View Post
By this criterion, the Soviet Union was a Christian nation.
Assuming by the Soviet Union you mean all the lands and people within the territory controlled by the Soviet Union, in other words, a successor state to the Russian Empire rather than the communist party itself, I wouldn't disagree, and the communists, as much as they despised Christianity and the Orthodox Church, knew this. When the chips were down, Stalin was happy to use the Church for propaganda purposes.
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Old April 27th, 2016, 09:21 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Brisieis View Post
Excellent.
Agreed, Pikeshot's last post was by far the best post of the thread.
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Old April 27th, 2016, 11:42 AM   #47
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Maybe, there are two basic types of "Christian" society. One Roman, one non-Roman

In as few words as possible -
Once upon a time there was Babylon. And "the whole earth was of one language." God scattered the tribes and confounded the tongues because when all these diverse () peoples got under one government, they conspired against Him. He also gave them sets of laws to follow, and the idea that people were answerable to Him not each other.

That, in a nutshell, if the basis of post-Reformation, Republican, limited-government, liberty-based society - associated with parts of Northern Europe and the US. That is the "Christian Society" that is the basis of the US founding, regardless of specific labels.

And contrary to what it says in post 7, these ideas never emanated from any political entity centered in Rome. Quite the opposite. That's the home of the centralized spiritual and temporal empire - putting all the tongues under (or back under) one rule. In fact, the word "catholic" means universal. In Italy, Spain and Portugal and their colonies in Latin America, one finds the centralized systems with names like "fascism" and "socialism." There is some history of this later group trying to rope the escaped "Protestants" back into the fold.

One could argue that the latter societies are also "Christian." However, back in the day, I suspect early Americans would have said - we are Christians and they are Romanists.

Last edited by Code Blue; April 27th, 2016 at 11:45 AM.
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Old April 27th, 2016, 02:10 PM   #48
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Either way - "Congress shall make no law for the establishment of a state religion."
At least one of the signers was a confirmed atheist, a few were agnostic, others were theist, and Ben Franklin supposedly did Black Masses in worship of SATAN with the Hell-fire Club.

"The God in Trust" was more in the fact that the only god that means anything or does anything in this world is $ money $.

Most of the political and legal institutions are a pagan system - democracy (pagan - Greek and Roman), trial by jury (pagan - Roman and Germanic), swearing on the Bible (a hold over from Germanic pagan tradition where people would make an oath on the sacred oak that Wotan would strike them dead if they lied), having lawyers (pagan - Roman tradition), etc.
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Old April 27th, 2016, 02:16 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by kazeuma View Post
Either way - "Congress shall make no law for the establishment of a state religion."
At least one of the signers was a confirmed atheist, a few were agnostic, others were theist, and Ben Franklin supposedly did Black Masses in worship of SATAN with the Hell-fire Club.

"The God in Trust" was more in the fact that the only god that means anything or does anything in this world is $ money $.

Most of the political and legal institutions are a pagan system - democracy (pagan - Greek and Roman), trial by jury (pagan - Roman and Germanic), swearing on the Bible (a hold over from Germanic pagan tradition where people would make an oath on the sacred oak that Wotan would strike them dead if they lied), having lawyers (pagan - Roman tradition), etc.
The christmas tree is pagan yet it makes it no less Christian.
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Old April 27th, 2016, 02:18 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazeuma View Post
Either way - "Congress shall make no law for the establishment of a state religion."
which was not a prohibition to the 13 states from establishing 13 state religions.
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