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Old June 25th, 2016, 08:53 AM   #11

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I would bring up a couple of points. When the battle happened, the Mission was well outside of city limits. The fort itself became a monument due to the actions of the Daughters of the Texas Revolution, who still own the place. Travis was named a Lieutenant Colonel when he said he could recruit a regiment of Cavalry. He failed miserably as he only recruited enough men to make a troop. He still preferred to be called a Colonel.

There was a Colonel Neill there that went on leave to care for his family. He was the commander. When Neill left, he left Travis, a regular, in charge. Neil did fight at San Jacinto where he was wounded in his rear end. He spent the rest of his life justifying why he left the fort.

Jim Bowie was a con artist that was born in Kentucky and moved to Louisiana where he tried every way he could to get money. He was fond of Land Sale Fraud and helped Jean Lafitte smuggle in Slaves. He came to Texas claiming to be well off. He was able to convince a wealthy family of this and married into the family. His wife died before the Revolution. He was sick during the whole siege and nobody is sure of what made him sick. Appendicitis fits as well as anything.

The Texians had captured the Mission from Mexican troops under General Cos. The garrison troops pretty much came and went as they pleased. There was supposedly a number of sick Texans there from the Battle when Santa Ana appeared. They are not counted in the garrison, but died with them.

Many people moved to Texas to participate in the rebellion. All who signed up for the Militia were supposed to be given a "league" of land. There is a monument on the lake in Lake Charles that commemorates Jacob Ryan who was killed at the Alamo.

People tend these days to overlook the bigger battle, Goliad. There were at least 400 Texians there under the the command of James Fannin. Fannin was given high rank because he went to West Point and quit. He showed he was incompetent. Unfortunately his opponent Jose de Urrea was a competent professional soldier. Fannin was ordered to evacuate and bring away his cannon. Fannin started to leave and even burned his extra supplies. Then he decided to stay! He then left and was caught marching to San Antonio. The oxen pulling his cannon were not picketed and they walked away from the camp!

Urrea caught him on the road, without draft animals and surrounded him. After a pathetic attempt at battle, Fannin surrendered his men. Urrea then tried to shoot the whole bunch. Some Texians were able to flee. The Mexican Cavalry rode down most of them, but some made it into the Bush.

Urrea was the only Mexican General that showed competence in Texas. Santa Ana divided his force and took a smaller bunch to try and catch Houston's army fleeing to Louisiana. He caught them, alright! Santa Ana was not taking a nap when the Texians attacked. There was a slave in his tent nicknamed the "Yellow Rose of Texas". Santa Ana was a ladies man.

Sam Houston was a friend and protege of Andrew Jackson. He fought with the 39th Regiment at Horseshoe Bend in Alabama. He was wounded there in the ankle and recovered at Jackson's Plantation in Tennessee. It is said his ankle never really healed. The ankle was again hit at San Jacinto. Houston had risen to the office of Governor in Tennessee after the War of 1812. He married a teenaged girl while Governor. For some reason she was back at her home fairly soon. For whatever reason, Houston turned to alcohol and lived with the Cherokee for a while. The Cherokee sent a large number to settle in Texas. That is how Sam Houston ended up there.

You can write a book on these subjects!

Pruitt

Last edited by Pruitt; June 25th, 2016 at 08:57 AM.
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Old June 25th, 2016, 09:12 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Corona View Post
I grew up on the "Remember the Alamo" war cry.
The so called heroes who died defending the Alamo in Mexican Texas land were either slave owners or supported slavery. It's ironic that these so called freedom fighters would actually be the enemies of the United States just a few years later during the American Civil War.
It reminds me to one of my postings in a thread about the Alamo. Fortunately I could find it. It was from 2012 and as it seems did the question alone offend several american members.
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Originally Posted by beorna View Post
When I was reading the thread, I, supposely like Corto, thought as well that here is a lot of gushing praise. I would like to know, how the Texas revolution is teached in the US or especially in Texas itself. As far as I know did the mexican Republic grant settlers from the USA to settle within the borders of Mexico and even granted special rights to these settlers. When the number of immigrants became too big, further immigration was abolished and e.g. the right of free taxes collected. A further main point for further struggle was, that mexico prohibited the slavery. so the Texas revolution is an uprise of a slavery-supporting immigrants against the legitimate government of mexico. I suppose, that is not what you get tought, isn't it?
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Old June 25th, 2016, 10:06 AM   #13

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corona View Post
I grew up on the "Remember the Alamo" war cry.
The so called heroes who died defending the Alamo in Mexican Texas land were either slave owners or supported slavery. It's ironic that these so called freedom fighters would actually be the enemies of the United States just a few years later during the American Civil War.
Well, of course none of the Alamo defenders would be fighting in the Civil War.

I have never seen an actual count for the men at the Alamo who owned slaves. I believe that Barrett and Bowie each had a slave with them. I am not at all certain about anyone else. Most of the men at the Alamo were not Texicans but were actually a bunch of adventurers (filibusters) who had come to Texas to fight after the Battle of San Jacinto a few months earlier. They were the New Orleans Greys and some other groups. Mostly young men or otherwise down on their luck and looking for a future. I don't remember reading that any of them owned slaves or had them available even though I don't doubt that most would own slaves if they could. After all, they were mostly from Alabama, GA, and other southern states. I would recommend this book as one to discuss the actual men who fought in more detail. If you want to find fault with them, I am sure there is plenty of fuel available.

https://www.amazon.com/Volunteers-Te...+Orleans+greys

We have some prior threads on the Alamo, some really good ones if I do say so myself. Newspaper Accounts of the Alamo

Also: 175 Years after the fall of The Alamo

Last edited by Baltis; June 25th, 2016 at 10:09 AM.
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Old June 25th, 2016, 03:22 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
I would bring up a couple of points. When the battle happened, the Mission was well outside of city limits.
"Well outside" is a very relative term. It's only about three city blocks from the Cathedral which was there at the time of the battle.

Quote:
The fort itself became a monument due to the actions of the Daughters of the Texas Revolution, who still own the place.
Make that Daughters of the Republic of Texas (DRT). They no longer own the place, unfortunately. The State of Texas does, If it hadn't been for these extraordinary ladies, the Alamo would have been torn down long ago.

Quote:
Travis was named a Lieutenant Colonel when he said he could recruit a regiment of Cavalry. He failed miserably as he only recruited enough men to make a troop. He still preferred to be called a Colonel.

There was a Colonel Neill there that went on leave to care for his family. He was the commander. When Neill left, he left Travis, a regular, in charge. Neil did fight at San Jacinto where he was wounded in his rear end. He spent the rest of his life justifying why he left the fort.
Cool. Didn't know that.

Quote:
Jim Bowie was a con artist that was born in Kentucky and moved to Louisiana where he tried every way he could to get money. He was fond of Land Sale Fraud and helped Jean Lafitte smuggle in Slaves. He came to Texas claiming to be well off. He was able to convince a wealthy family of this and married into the family. His wife died before the Revolution. He was sick during the whole siege and nobody is sure of what made him sick. Appendicitis fits as well as anything.

The Texians had captured the Mission from Mexican troops under General Cos. The garrison troops pretty much came and went as they pleased. There was supposedly a number of sick Texans there from the Battle when Santa Ana appeared. They are not counted in the garrison, but died with them.

Many people moved to Texas to participate in the rebellion. All who signed up for the Militia were supposed to be given a "league" of land. There is a monument on the lake in Lake Charles that commemorates Jacob Ryan who was killed at the Alamo.

People tend these days to overlook the bigger battle, Goliad. There were at least 400 Texians there under the the command of James Fannin. Fannin was given high rank because he went to West Point and quit. He showed he was incompetent. Unfortunately his opponent Jose de Urrea was a competent professional soldier. Fannin was ordered to evacuate and bring away his cannon. Fannin started to leave and even burned his extra supplies. Then he decided to stay! He then left and was caught marching to San Antonio. The oxen pulling his cannon were not picketed and they walked away from the camp!

Urrea caught him on the road, without draft animals and surrounded him. After a pathetic attempt at battle, Fannin surrendered his men. Urrea then tried to shoot the whole bunch. Some Texians were able to flee. The Mexican Cavalry rode down most of them, but some made it into the Bush.
As I understood it, Urrea was appalled that Santa Ana ordered the execution of all the captives from Goliad, but there was nothing he could do.

Quote:
Urrea was the only Mexican General that showed competence in Texas. Santa Ana divided his force and took a smaller bunch to try and catch Houston's army fleeing to Louisiana. He caught them, alright! Santa Ana was not taking a nap when the Texians attacked. There was a slave in his tent nicknamed the "Yellow Rose of Texas". Santa Ana was a ladies man.
Goliad is unusual. As far as I know, it's the only Spanish stone fort constructed west of the Mississippi. The Goliad MIssion is separate from this but only a stone's throw away and completely restored..

Quote:
Sam Houston was a friend and protege of Andrew Jackson. He fought with the 39th Regiment at Horseshoe Bend in Alabama. He was wounded there in the ankle and recovered at Jackson's Plantation in Tennessee. It is said his ankle never really healed. The ankle was again hit at San Jacinto. Houston had risen to the office of Governor in Tennessee after the War of 1812. He married a teenaged girl while Governor. For some reason she was back at her home fairly soon. For whatever reason, Houston turned to alcohol and lived with the Cherokee for a while. The Cherokee sent a large number to settle in Texas. That is how Sam Houston ended up there.

You can write a book on these subjects!

Pruitt
Great stuff!

Last edited by royal744; June 25th, 2016 at 03:30 PM.
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Old June 25th, 2016, 03:54 PM   #15
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It reminds me to one of my postings in a thread about the Alamo. Fortunately I could find it. It was from 2012 and as it seems did the question alone offend several american members.
I'm sure the Mexicans regretted allowing these Anglo settlers into their Texas province, but the unfortunate fact was that the Mexican government failed to attract many settlers from below the Rio Grande. In order to Develop the land, the government invited "Impresarios" from the US to bring in settlers (from Europe and the US). Stephen F Austin was one such impresario and he established a colony in Texas. The settlers were supposed to profess to Catholicism and while I am sure some were Catholic to begin with, the rest probably weren't. As you said, slavery was not permitted, but there were slaves in Texas nonetheless.

The other thing to remember is that the physical boundaries of Spanish/Mexican Texas were not defined. When Texas entered the Union after a few years of threadbare existence as a "country", the federal government lopped off claimed territories that would become New Mexico, Oklahoma and Colorado. Except for parts of New Mexico, the rest was basically empty of European/Mexican settlement.
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Old June 25th, 2016, 04:45 PM   #16

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The Mexican government did try to promote settlement of Tejas. The problem was the Indian Tribes there. The Apache, Comanche, Kiowa and Kiowa Apache all liked to ride into Mexico to kill and loot. The provinces of what is today Northern Mexico were hit hard. It is said the Kiowa made it all the way to the Yucatan on a raid!

The Mexican governments were not fond of Americans, but American settlement offered a potential buffer zone between Mexico and these predatory Indian Tribes. The vast majority of American settlers that came in were from the Southern States and that meant they liked Slaves. The offer of free land attracted many Slave Owners. They got around the ban on Slaves by declaring them indentured servants with 99 year contracts!

Not all settlers landed around Austin (Washington on the Brazos). There were a number of settlements in Texas like Nacogdoches, San Augustine, and Anahuac. These were all trade centers. Anahuac attracted William Travis who was trying to run away from his wife. He thought he could make more money in Texas as a lawyer.

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Old June 25th, 2016, 05:02 PM   #17

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I will second Pedro and agree that this is a truly informative thread.
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Old June 25th, 2016, 05:40 PM   #18

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Originally Posted by Baltis View Post
............... Most of the men at the Alamo were not Texicans but were actually a bunch of adventurers (filibusters) who had come to Texas to fight after the Battle of San Jacinto a few months earlier. ................l
Looking at the posts from Royal and Pruitt, the battle of San Jacinto was after the Alamo battle, not before?
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Old June 25th, 2016, 07:17 PM   #19
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Looking at the posts from Royal and Pruitt, the battle of San Jacinto was after the Alamo battle, not before?
Yes, I noticed it too, but thought he may have meant to say "later" as opposed to "earlier".

Incidentally, Sam Houston was nervous about the fighting ability of his force, so when they crossed the marshes to confront the Mexican Army he ordered that the small bridges they crossed be burned behind them. How they wrestled those two cannon overland is beyond me. As far as I know, neither of the "Twin Sisters" was ever found.

Last edited by royal744; June 25th, 2016 at 07:25 PM.
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Old June 25th, 2016, 08:40 PM   #20

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San Jacinto was the last real battle of the war. Houston started the "Runaway Scrape with over 1000 men. As he went East more and more men dropped out to see about their families. The Twin Sisters were actually pretty small. The woman who rented the oxen used to haul them made Houston promise not to put the oxen at risk! They probably stayed on the other side of the river while men pushed the cannon forward.

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