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Old December 17th, 2016, 10:14 AM   #11

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regarding respectability, well yes they were. Most well do to Southerners were prominent members in it,in both the original incarnation and in the 1920s. I'm sure some are today.
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Old December 17th, 2016, 10:46 AM   #12

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Originally Posted by StoryMan View Post
The Ku Klux Klan, forever and always, was, is, and will be a deplorable collection of white racists lead by the most despicable of demagogues whose only purpose was to intimidate through terrorism, brutality, and murder. There was never any semblance of moral decency or redeeming virtues within that organization. To compare them with ANY social club or mutual-aid society is complete folly.

Even ISIS/ISIL has a long way to go to catch the Klan in the number of innocent people executed for no rational reason.

Compared to Free Masons?? Seriously . . . .
Storyman--According to the article below, the KKK lynched around 3500 people Allen West: More black-on-black murders in six months than by 'KKK' in 86 years | PunditFact

(Sorry for mixing this with another data point, but I couldnt' find a "clean" statement of how many the KKK murdered in all its years to date.

That's roughly 10% of the 33,000 murdered by ISIS/ISIL/DAESH:
How Many People Has ISIS Killed? Terrorist Attacks Linked To Islamic State Have Caused 33,000 Deaths: Report
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Old December 17th, 2016, 11:20 AM   #13

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Originally Posted by David Vagamundo View Post
Storyman--According to the article below, the KKK lynched around 3500 people Allen West: More black-on-black murders in six months than by 'KKK' in 86 years | PunditFact

(Sorry for mixing this with another data point, but I couldnt' find a "clean" statement of how many the KKK murdered in all its years to date.

That's roughly 10% of the 33,000 murdered by ISIS/ISIL/DAESH:
How Many People Has ISIS Killed? Terrorist Attacks Linked To Islamic State Have Caused 33,000 Deaths: Report
I think that comparison is intellectually dishonest...
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Old December 17th, 2016, 11:32 AM   #14

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I think that comparison is intellectually dishonest...
Please explain. All I'm trying to do is get the numbers on the table. Do you think that ISIS or whatever they call themselves has better reason for murdering people than the KKK had?

Let me be clear that I'm not supporting the kKK which is otherwise as despicable as Storyman described. Just challenging what I believe to be a misstatement of fact.

And please say what you mean by "intellectually dishonest," as that is not the first time you've accused me of this.

Last edited by David Vagamundo; December 17th, 2016 at 11:37 AM.
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Old December 17th, 2016, 11:39 AM   #15

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regarding respectability, well yes they were. Most well do to Southerners were prominent members in it,in both the original incarnation and in the 1920s. I'm sure some are today.
IMO, membership in the Klan would make the prominent members less respectable rather than making the Klan more so.
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Old December 17th, 2016, 11:46 AM   #16

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I've seen it about three times and each time I am even more revolted by its lying message than the first time I saw it. It is a tissue of lies in the way it celebrates the KKK or the Knights of the White Camellia. DW Griffith did no one any favors except to enrich himself by bending history so badly. Reference is made to the KKK in Gone With the Wind as well but the message is dealt with rather lightly there. President Woodrow Wilson was a terrible racist and the fact that he loved Birth of a Nation and had it screened in the White House tells me pretty much allI need to know.
I've only seen it once, and I got the same sense of revulsion I got from watching Triumph of the Will: a great talent prostituted to an evil cause. And my understanding is that Griffith--whom I otherwise admire as a director--believed the message.

The fact that a Democratic President of the United States permitted it to be screened in the White House shows how far the US has come in about 100 years.

Last edited by David Vagamundo; December 17th, 2016 at 11:54 AM.
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Old December 17th, 2016, 11:53 AM   #17

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Originally Posted by David Vagamundo View Post
Please explain. All I'm trying to do is get the numbers on the table. Do you think that ISIS or whatever they call themselves has better reason for murdering people than the KKK had?

Let me be clear that I'm not supporting the kKK which is otherwise as despicable as Storyman described. Just challenging what I believe to be a misstatement of fact.

And please say what you mean by "intellectually dishonest," as that is not the first time you've accused me of this.
I'm more explaining about the comparison between KKK terrorist murders and the so-called "Black-on-black" murders in last six months:

First, you should compare the murder rate (murder per population) not just the raw total murder numbers - that would make the comparison innacurate.

Second, one thing is getting killed out of a political motive, while the other is getting killed in connection to "common criminality". That's why we get far more hooked up when a terrorist kills a dozen people in some Western country and not by the thousands of deaths related to alcohol abuse, for example.
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Old December 17th, 2016, 11:54 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by David Vagamundo View Post
Please explain. All I'm trying to do is get the numbers on the table. Do you think that ISIS or whatever they call themselves has better reason for murdering people than the KKK had?

Let me be clear that I'm not supporting the kKK which is otherwise as despicable as Storyman described. Just challenging what I believe to be a misstatement of fact.

And please say what you mean by "intellectually dishonest," as that is not the first time you've accused me of this.
I suspect no-one truly knows who has killed more, the KKK or ISIS. That's why we should dismiss the initial allegation you responded to and also take your link with a pinch of salt. I suspect a lot depends upon what we define as an ISIS killing or a KKK killing. Is a killing of civilians during wartime a murder? Or do we only count terrorist acts and executions?
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Old December 17th, 2016, 12:54 PM   #19

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I suspect no-one truly knows who has killed more, the KKK or ISIS. That's why we should dismiss the initial allegation you responded to and also take your link with a pinch of salt. I suspect a lot depends upon what we define as an ISIS killing or a KKK killing. Is a killing of civilians during wartime a murder? Or do we only count terrorist acts and executions?
"A five-year study published in 2015 by the Equal Justice Initiative found that nearly 3,959 black men, women, and children were lynched in the twelve Southern states between 1877 and 1950. Over this period Georgia's 586 lynchings led all states."(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynchi..._United_States)
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Old December 17th, 2016, 01:38 PM   #20

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More than respectable, I think mainstream would be the word here..just my opinion. I don't think its fair to throw the masons into a comparison with the KKK a organization currently deemed a hate group and a terrorist organization by most.
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