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Old December 18th, 2016, 01:43 PM   #31
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Was the KKK ever as influential or 'respectable' as the Masons?

The Masons operate hospitals for needy crippled children.

The Klan has a long way to go.
No, of course they weren't as respectable, and yet, there was a great deal of peer pressure to be a member in the early part of the century if you wanted to "do business" - especially in southern cities - not unlike all those millions who joined the National Socialists in Germany to "get ahead'. You know, go along to get along. But comparisons with the Masons are invidious and scurrilous. One might as well substitute "Lions Club" or "Rotary Club" to see how absurd such comparisons are. Masons seem to be very much on the decline these days,m although I know a few who are still members, and yes, some branches run excellent hospitals and do great public service.

Last edited by royal744; December 18th, 2016 at 01:48 PM.
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Old December 18th, 2016, 01:44 PM   #32
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Didn't the "Second Klan" in the 1920s had hospitals and were engaged in charity as well?
Never heard of that.
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Old December 18th, 2016, 02:28 PM   #33

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From; http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fry...f?m=1360041666

"Joining the Klan was not a cheap undertaking. Using the numbers above, the first year of membership costs $23.30 (roughly $250 in 2011 dollars) and subsequent years were $6.80 (approximately $75 in 2011 dollars). At its peak in 1924, the Klan conservatively generated annual revenues from all sources of at least $25 million – equivalent to $300 million in current dollars. Only a small portion of this revenue was required to fund basic operations (Alexander 1965)."

It was a shakedown operation.
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Old December 18th, 2016, 03:45 PM   #34
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$23 in the 1920s in more like $600 today.

The KKK was only big for a few years in the 1920s. The Masons were influential over a long period. The Masons were/are also more elite. At least after the 1920s, the KKK tended to attract poor whites.
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Old December 18th, 2016, 04:08 PM   #35

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Never heard of that.
I heard it on a history channel documentary a long time ago. Before they emphasised those "ancient chariots" pseudo-history theory...
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Old December 19th, 2016, 12:52 AM   #36
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The Orange Order is often described as the poor man's Mason's, or, is given a similar description as that. I suspect the KKK membership may have overlapped Orange Order membership in the types of individuals involved. From the little I know of the Orange Order it's membership is respectable enough in certain communities. In other communities it is hated or looked down upon.

Looking at US elections today we see the "cultured elites" in cities voting differently to rural America. I know voting patterns have changed a lot since the 1920's, but were the KKK more rural in it's membership even in the South? The KKK may have been looked down upon more in Charleston than in your generic rural SC county.
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Old December 19th, 2016, 07:08 AM   #37
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Generally, the KKK after the 1920s in the south attracted poor men who had not been real successful in life.

During Reconstruction and the 1920s it was more mainstream. It was never mostly elite like the Masons.
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Old December 19th, 2016, 08:43 AM   #38

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I'm more explaining about the comparison between KKK terrorist murders and the so-called "Black-on-black" murders in last six months:

First, you should compare the murder rate (murder per population) not just the raw total murder numbers - that would make the comparison innacurate.

Second, one thing is getting killed out of a political motive, while the other is getting killed in connection to "common criminality". That's why we get far more hooked up when a terrorist kills a dozen people in some Western country and not by the thousands of deaths related to alcohol abuse, for example.

I used the link containing statistics on black on black murders because I could not find numbers on the KKK alone, and I tried to state that in my comment. Many of the other sources I found discussed numbers of blacks killed by the police v those killed by the KKK.

In my view, both the KKK and ISIS are killing from political motives, and that's the comparison that Storyman raised and that I'm addressing.
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Old December 19th, 2016, 08:47 AM   #39

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I suspect no-one truly knows who has killed more, the KKK or ISIS. That's why we should dismiss the initial allegation you responded to and also take your link with a pinch of salt. I suspect a lot depends upon what we define as an ISIS killing or a KKK killing. Is a killing of civilians during wartime a murder? Or do we only count terrorist acts and executions?
Maybe we don't truly know the exact numbers, but I'm pretty comfortable asserting that ISIS has murdered many times more people--the vast maturity of whom are Muslims--than the KKK lynched. The KKK practiced targeted murder, while the ISIL murders indiscriminately.
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Old December 19th, 2016, 08:53 AM   #40

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President Truman, Senator Byrd, and one other guy in recent times were Klansmen. Forrest as in Nathan Bedford founded the Klan but when he saw how it was headed, he disbanded it. But it didn't stay disbanded.

Klansmen are still around and they have gotten more covert in their actions. A number of them are veterans. In 1979 on the beach between Gulfport and Biloxi, the Klan burned a cross. I parked at Edgewater mall and went down to protest it...yeah by myself....scared the crap out of me...but as I saw it...someone needed to do it. When that guy leading the burning looked around at it...my courage gave way and I fled. My Native American husband was overseas and our daughter was at home with my sister.

I was at my car....when a man spoke up....You don't like them. Scared the crap out of me. I said yeah...and he said he was one of them....I stood my ground. My heart was racing a mile a minute..he was tall...but then he laughed and said he wasn't. I am convinced I had run into David Duke. He was still a NAZI at the time as I recall.

I am not ashamed of being White....not ashamed of my history or the things good that White people have done. I don't pretend the bad stuff didn't happen but I didn't do it. Every race has a group of asses who do dumb crap....and every race has killers in their group. It's the nature of the beast.
Last nite I watched the conclusion of Black America since MLK, and towards the end someone said "The US has racism in its DNA". I don't disagree, but I am afraid that it's more widespread than that--humans have racism in our DNA and in some it's more concentrated than in others. And when a society condones it--like in the US until fairly recently-- it becomes more visible and more virulent.

BTW Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black---an FDR nominee- had been a member of the KKK, although not a very active one. Robert Byrd, former Democratic Senate Majority Leader, was very active Klan Member. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klu...cs#Robert_Byrd

Last edited by David Vagamundo; December 19th, 2016 at 08:59 AM.
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