Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > American History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

American History American History Forum - United States, Canada, Mexico, Central and South America


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 10th, 2017, 02:19 PM   #31
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2012
From: Here
Posts: 4,087
Blog Entries: 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by M9Powell View Post
You're original post is right on the money. Slavery was still legal in the North at the time of the war of northern agression. Lincoln's much ballyhooed emancipation proclamation only freed slaves in the South not those in the North. In other words he declared slaves he didn't have free & kept enslaved those that he did. Also notice the war had been going on for a couple of years before Lincoln's emancipation proclamation. Also note that Lincoln was dead & the war over before slavery was abolished in the North. Lincoln's Emancipation proclamation is a midwar grab on the moral high ground. Probably the most successful use of spin & propaganda in history. Don't get me wrong slavery is a terrible thing but the Yankees are just as guilty of it as the South. The war was fought over states rights.
This dishonest twaddle again?

Lincoln did not have authority to end slavery in states that were not in rebellion. Anyone who thinks he could have needs a high school level education on the Constitution. He could only free slaves in states in rebellion against the federal government under presidential war powers.

The U.S. military was freeing slaves under the second conscription act in 1862, even before the Emancipation Proclamation. Over 300,000 slaves were freed before the end of the war. 150,000 of them joined the U.S. military to help defeat the enslavers and their minions.

Lincoln endorsed the 13th amendment that freed all of the slaves and would have lived to see all of the slaves freed under the 13th amendment if some coward had not shot him in the back of the head.

Here is an interactive map of the many contraband (slave refugee camps) the government established during the war to protect the freed slaves.

https://repository.upenn.edu/hist_digital/1/

Last edited by Jax Historian; December 10th, 2017 at 02:25 PM.
Jax Historian is offline  
Remove Ads
Old December 10th, 2017, 02:51 PM   #32
Historian
 
Joined: Oct 2014
From: appalacian Mtns
Posts: 3,905

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax Historian View Post
This dishonest twaddle again?

]
Prove that any of those facts are untrue.
M9Powell is online now  
Old December 10th, 2017, 03:12 PM   #33
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2012
From: Here
Posts: 4,087
Blog Entries: 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by M9Powell View Post
Prove that any of those facts are untrue.
I don't have to. Anyone who reads my post after yours will see how you dishonestly framed your "facts." For instance...

They can also look up that all northern states above the Mason-Dixon line had emancipated all of their slaves except for 2,000 and no southern state even began emancipation and they held about 3.8 million people in bondage. So your claim that when it came to slavery, "the Yankees were just as guilty as the South" is pathetic.
Jax Historian is offline  
Old December 10th, 2017, 05:31 PM   #34
Historian
 
Joined: Oct 2014
From: appalacian Mtns
Posts: 3,905

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax Historian View Post
I don't have to. Anyone who reads my post after yours will see how you dishonestly framed your "facts." For instance...

They can also look up that all northern states above the Mason-Dixon line had emancipated all of their slaves except for 2,000 and no southern state even began emancipation and they held about 3.8 million people in bondage. So your claim that when it came to slavery, "the Yankees were just as guilty as the South" is pathetic.
So a murderer that only kills 2,000 is innocent? And one that kills 3.8 million is guilty? Methinks you are the pot calling the kettle black. The facts are both sides held slaves until after the end of the war. 1 slave is too many. Both sides are guilty. And I'm not talking about the Mason Dixon line, but states that rebeled vs states that didnt. That # is considerably higher.

Last edited by M9Powell; December 10th, 2017 at 05:39 PM.
M9Powell is online now  
Old December 10th, 2017, 05:43 PM   #35
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2012
From: Here
Posts: 4,087
Blog Entries: 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by M9Powell View Post
So a murder that only kills 2,000 is innocent? And one that kills 3.8 million is guilty? Methinks you are the pot calling the kettle black. The facts are both sides held slaves until after the end of the war. 1 slave is too many. Both sides are guilty.
Try to be honest for 2 seconds. No one said anyone was innocent. But 2,000 slaves is not "just as bad" as 3,800,000 slaves in any math anywhere except apparently where you live. And almost all of the northern states had gotten rid of slavery before the war and none of the southern states did. Not remotely close to being "just as bad" in any honest person's view. Trying to characterize "the north" just based on Delaware is, once again, pathetic.
Jax Historian is offline  
Old December 10th, 2017, 05:45 PM   #36
Historian
 
Joined: Oct 2014
From: appalacian Mtns
Posts: 3,905

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax Historian View Post
Try to be honest for 2 seconds. No one said anyone was innocent. But 2,000 slaves is not "just as bad" as 3,800,000 slaves in any math anywhere except apparently where you live. And almost all of the northern states had gotten rid of slavery before the war and none of the southern states did. Not remotely close to being "just as bad" in any honest person's view. Trying to characterize "the north" just based on Delaware is, once again, pathetic.
Not just Delaware. Lincoln didn't fight the South for the black man. He fought it to make them stay in the union. That's a fact.

Last edited by M9Powell; December 10th, 2017 at 05:48 PM.
M9Powell is online now  
Old December 10th, 2017, 05:50 PM   #37
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2012
From: Here
Posts: 4,087
Blog Entries: 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by M9Powell View Post
Not just Delaware. Lincoln didn't fight the South for the black man. He fought it to make them stay in the union. That's a fact.
I know why Lincoln fought the war. That doesn't make anything you said honest. It was all a bunch of contorted dishonesty. How you think people are going to respect your view when you can't be honest i don't understand.
Jax Historian is offline  
Old December 10th, 2017, 07:50 PM   #38

Fiver's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,506

Quote:
Originally Posted by M9Powell View Post
The war was fought over states rights.
Someone forgot to tell that to the Confederates.

"For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery." - Georgia Declaration of Causes for Secession

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization." - Mississippi Declaration of Causes for Secession

"We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection." - South Carolina Declaration of Causes for Secession

"Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time."

" In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon an unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of equality of all men, irrespective of race or color-- a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States." - Texas Declaration of Causes for Secession

"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth." - Alexander Stephens, Vice President of the Confederacy

"We but imitate the policy of our fathers in dissolving a union with non-slaveholding confederates, and seeking a confederation with slave-holding States." - South Carolina's Address to the Slaveholding States

"Louisiana looks to the formation of a Southern confederacy to preserve the blessings of African slavery, and of the free institutions of the founders of the Federal Union, bequeathed to their posterity. - Address of the Commissioner from Louisiana to the Texas Secession Convention

"Louisiana supplies to Texas a market for her surplus wheat, grain and stock; both States have large areas of fertile, uncultivated lands, peculiarly adapted to slave labor; and they are both so deeply interested in African slavery that it may be said to be absolutely necessary to their existence, and is the keystone to the arch of their prosperity." - Address of the Commissioner from Louisiana to the Texas Secession Convention

"The people of the slaveholding States are bound together by the same necessity and determination to preserve African slavery. " - Address of the Commissioner from Louisiana to the Texas Secession Convention

"To evade the issue thus forced upon us at this time, without the fullest security for our rights, is, in my opinion, fatal to the institution of slavery forever. The time has arrived when the people of the South must prepare either to abandon or to fortify and maintain it. Abandon it, we cannot, interwoven as it is with our wealth, prosperity, and domestic happiness." - Message of the Governor to the Tennessee Assembly

"The Black Republican party has for years continued to make aggressions upon the slaveholding States, under the forms of law, and in every manner that fanaticism could devise. and have now gained strength and position, which threaten, not only the destruction of the institution of slavery, but must degrade and ruin the slaveholding States, if not resisted. - Message of the Governor to the Alabama Legislature

"The Federal Government has failed to protect the rights and property of the citizens of the South, and is about to pass into the hands of a party pledged for the destruction, not only of their rights and property, but the equality of the States ordained by the Constitution, and the heaven-ordained superiority of the white over the black race. -Letter of the Commissioner from Alabama to the Governor of Kentucky

"What Southern man, be he slave-holder or non-slave-holder, can without indignation and horror contemplate the triumph of negro equality, and see his own sons and daughters, in the not distant future, associating with free negroes upon terms of political and social equality, and the white man stripped, by the Heaven-daring hand of fanaticism of that title to superiority over the black race which God himself has bestowed? -Letter of the Commissioner from Alabama to the Governor of Kentucky

"Will the South give up the institution of slavery, and consent that her citizens be stripped of their property, her civilization destroyed, the whole land laid waste by fire and sword? It is impossible; she can not, she will not." -Letter of the Commissioner from Alabama to the Governor of Kentucky

"Wealth is timid, and wealthy men may cry for peace, and submit to wrong for fear they may lose their money: but the poor, honest laborers of Georgia, can never consent to see slavery abolished, and submit to all the taxation, vassalage, low wages and downright degradation, which must follow. " Open Letter from the Governor of Georgia
Fiver is offline  
Old December 10th, 2017, 07:55 PM   #39

Fiver's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,506

Quote:
Originally Posted by M9Powell View Post
Slavery was still legal in the North at the time of the war of northern agression.
I take it you are unfamiliar with the Confederate attack on Ft Sumter?

"Mr. President, at this time it is suicide, murder, and will lose us every friend at the North. You will wantonly strike a hornet's nest which extends from mountain to ocean, and legions now quiet will swarm out and sting us to death. It is unnecessary; it puts us in the wrong; it is fatal." - Confederate Secretary of State Robert Toombs' reaction to Jefferson Davis' ordering the attack on Ft. Sumter.

"No man can tell where the war this day commenced will end, but I will prophesy that the flag which now flaunts the breeze here will float over the dome of the old Capitol at Washington before the first of May. Let them try southern chivalry and test the extent of southern resources, and it may float eventually over Faneuil [Independence] Hall itself." - Confederate Secretary of War Leroy Pope Walker, April 12, 1861
Fiver is offline  
Old December 10th, 2017, 10:52 PM   #40
Historian
 
Joined: Oct 2014
From: appalacian Mtns
Posts: 3,905

The attack on Ft Sumter was goaded by Lincoln. Ft Sumter is in SC. SC gave Lincoln plenty of opportunity too withdraw his troops from SC peacefully. They warned him not too try too reinforce FT Sumter. Which is exactly what he did.
M9Powell is online now  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > American History

Tags
civil, newbie, war



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Newbie Cameronian New Users 3 July 17th, 2017 10:11 PM
Hello from a newbie JoanGF New Users 4 February 3rd, 2015 11:00 AM
Hello Everybody...a newbie here! dale1257 New Users 12 August 6th, 2012 11:55 AM
Newbie Caelyn New Users 24 December 22nd, 2010 10:18 AM
Newbie rokerman New Users 23 September 16th, 2010 02:01 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.