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Old November 21st, 2017, 02:46 PM   #1
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Racism and the guise of "for their own good."


I'm in a discussion with someone about racism, and they were saying that to be a racist there must be an "intent to harm" but I know there have been instances in the past where people were racist...thought that other races were lesser than them but also had an attitude that those other races needed "protection" or some sort because they were inferior. So, no "intent to harm" but obviously racism (and some of their "protection" was harmful just the same). BUT, while I remember something generally about this, I can't remember specific examples, and am having trouble finding some online (just not searching under the right thing, I guess). Help?
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Old November 21st, 2017, 04:24 PM   #2
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Try the "White man's burden" - it was the affair of how the British Empire thought of their colonies that "here we are bringing the ungrateful masses civilization and improving their lot, because it is our nature to protect these children."
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Old November 21st, 2017, 10:42 PM   #3
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Thanks!


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Originally Posted by kazeuma View Post
Try the "White man's burden" - it was the affair of how the British Empire thought of their colonies that "here we are bringing the ungrateful masses civilization and improving their lot, because it is our nature to protect these children."
Thanks...thats an excellent example.
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Old November 21st, 2017, 11:22 PM   #4

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In a more modern and ongoing context.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northe...gency_Response

The Northern Territory intervention, which has been found by the UN to be "Racially discriminating and infringe on the human rights of Aboriginal people in the Northern Territory."

However the UN also said that the emergency action was needed.
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Old April 13th, 2018, 08:08 AM   #5

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecarian View Post
I'm in a discussion with someone about racism, and they were saying that to be a racist there must be an "intent to harm" but I know there have been instances in the past where people were racist...thought that other races were lesser than them but also had an attitude that those other races needed "protection" or some sort because they were inferior. So, no "intent to harm" but obviously racism (and some of their "protection" was harmful just the same). BUT, while I remember something generally about this, I can't remember specific examples, and am having trouble finding some online (just not searching under the right thing, I guess). Help?
I'm confident that no dictionary has ever been printed which defines the term racism in a manner that encompasses the intent of a speaker. Even the definitions most sympathetic to this idea, ones that merely and abstractly mention "hatred" or "intolerance", don't require an intent to harm. Hatred is merely a strong dislike and intolerance is merely a lack of acceptance. Either could be expressed functionally without the speaker even realizing it. For instance, I've known many folks in my lifetime who vehemently insisted they didn't harbor racism in their minds while, at the same time, often regaled me with their negative opinions about black people as a whole. A lot of times, they will also justify their beliefs by claiming they merely hold conservative views. Yet, no dictionary has ever defined this term as a function of the expression's sociopolitical classification either.

These folks have their heads planted in the sand. Like many Americans, your friend has been indoctrinated by iterations of the Lost Cause agenda. It's all part of the denial of the existence of bigotry which, inherently, is a central tenet of this ideology. These ideas are extensively used to justify bigotry in American society despite the profound lack of evidence supporting them. Indeed, this element of the Lost Cause agenda has even been institutionalized within the governing policy of this forum. I find that very ironic considering this is supposed to be a history forum. For further insight, you can read The Lost Cause (1866) and The Lost Cause Regained (1868) by Edward Pollard, the fount from which the Lost Cause ideology sprang. Those texts can be found at archive.org. Obviously, these methods for justifying bigotry weren't invented by Pollard as they predated him but, in my opinion, his work and it's subsequent ideological development through very influential politicians, media and large-scale social movements are the primary means by which these ideas have been propagated.
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Old April 14th, 2018, 05:53 AM   #6

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Racism isn't a valid term. It's invented by cultural marxists.
The definitions of racism are harmful and subversive.

"Racism is when you treat people differently, because of their race."
Well there are differences between the races, so reality is racist?

"Racism is when you harm a person of another race."
Well, this functionally gets translated into a white person harming a POC, because of the next and true definition of racism.

"Racism is a term POC and Cultural Marxists use to use the shame-based guilt system of european people to support policies they demand."
Everything can be constructed to be racist. Even "Hispanic Mario" is racist, even though Hispanics LOVE Mario in mexican clothes.

Racism like these other isms: Sexism, Chauvinism are just ways for cultural Marxists to control what you think. Even the mere exposure to these terms are subversive, even if you don't agree with the definition. The very urge you feel to defend yourself from being a racist is enogh to get power over you. After all this is what Boomer Conservatives in the West were and are afraid of. Being called a racist.
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Old April 14th, 2018, 07:07 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engelkrieger View Post
Racism isn't a valid term. It's invented by cultural marxists.
The definitions of racism are harmful and subversive.
Racism just simply means an attitude of antagonism, prejudice, and discrimination towards different groups, usually on the basis that one's own in superior. Nothing more nothing less.


While I don't entirely agree with the leftist conception of racism being both prejudice and power, that also doesn't change the inherent meaning. Just because there might be differences between races, or the context of the situation differs, doesn't change that racism as a term and phenomenon exists. Genuine hostility towards groups for looking/being different due to their heritage does exist, and it does cause problems, and these is a long history of people trying to justify it.

Last edited by ameteurhistorian; April 14th, 2018 at 07:14 AM.
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Old April 14th, 2018, 07:13 AM   #8

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engelkrieger View Post
Racism isn't a valid term. It's invented by cultural marxists.
The definitions of racism are harmful and subversive.

"Racism is when you treat people differently, because of their race."
Well there are differences between the races, so reality is racist?

"Racism is when you harm a person of another race."
Well, this functionally gets translated into a white person harming a POC, because of the next and true definition of racism.

"Racism is a term POC and Cultural Marxists use to use the shame-based guilt system of european people to support policies they demand."
Everything can be constructed to be racist. Even "Hispanic Mario" is racist, even though Hispanics LOVE Mario in mexican clothes.

Racism like these other isms: Sexism, Chauvinism are just ways for cultural Marxists to control what you think. Even the mere exposure to these terms are subversive, even if you don't agree with the definition. The very urge you feel to defend yourself from being a racist is enogh to get power over you. After all this is what Boomer Conservatives in the West were and are afraid of. Being called a racist.
Complete nonsense.
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Old April 14th, 2018, 07:14 AM   #9

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ameteurhistorian View Post
Racism just simply means an attitude of antagonism, prejudice, and discrimination towards different groups, usually on the basis that one's own in superior. Nothing more nothing less.


While I don't entirely agree with the leftist conception of racism being both prejudice and power, that also doesn't change the inherent meaning. Just because there might be differences between races, or the context of the situation differs, doesn't change that racism as a term and phenomenon exists.
If Racism has such an inherent meaning, why was there no such word, before the word was invented? This confuses so many academics, that they even claim that Greeks and Romans were completly accepting of people of every race and didn't even have a concept such as racism or anything similar to it.

If you want to continue using it, then it kinda forces the strategically bad decision to argue that racism might be a good thing, depending on your definition of racism and Europe is not going to survive with such an attitude.

I say: "Yes, the Social scientists are right. Words have meanings and are powerful." So let's abolish the term racism. For our own good. Make race realism great again.
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Old April 14th, 2018, 07:23 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engelkrieger View Post
If Racism has such an inherent meaning, why was there no such word, before the word was invented?
Bigotry, prejudice, hostility, ethnocentrism, racial prejudice, xenophobia, pick your poison.

Quote:
This confuses so many academics, that they even claim that Greeks and Romans were completly accepting of people of every race and didn't even have a concept such as racism or anything similar to it.
Who is advocating that the Greeks and Romans accepted people? They were more into enslaving outsiders as well as each other. That said, they looked down at people for not being "Greek enough" or "Roman enough". If you spoke their language and worshiped their gods, that wasn't so much of a problem. Their discrimination was based on cultural practices and identity, not phenotype.

Quote:
If you want to continue using it, then it kinda forces the strategically bad decision to argue that racism might be a good thing, depending on your definition of racism and Europe is not going to survive with such an attitude.
Racism is and always has been a bad thing. Mistreating someone for having a visibly different background than you is generally a bad thing. Sticking an entire group of people for sharing that background a second-class position is generally a bad thing.

Quote:
I say: "Yes, the Social scientists are right. Words have meanings and are powerful." So let's abolish the term racism. For our own good. Make race realism great again.
There isn't a debate on what racism is or if it's bad or not. The academic debate is what causes racism to arise and how it can be handled at a personal and societal level.
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