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Old December 22nd, 2017, 08:44 AM   #1
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nouveaux riches and shoddyites.


Hello there! I'm a new member here.
I'm currently reading a book, there are two words:" nouveaux riches" and "shoddyites". But I'm not native English speaker. I get to know from a language forum, that Shoddyite is something belongs only to America, and that it was out of date a long time ago.
But please, explain to me, unaware person:Is there any difference between nouveaux riches and Shoddyites as for 19th century, or Shoddyite is just an American term for french word nouveaux riche?
Thank you in advance!
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 08:51 AM   #2

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna Frank View Post
Hello there! I'm a new member here.
I'm currently reading a book, there are two words:" nouveaux riches" and "shoddyites". But I'm not native English speaker. I get to know from a language forum, that Shoddyite is something belongs only to America, and that it was out of date a long time ago.
But please, explain to me, unaware person:Is there any difference between nouveaux riches and Shoddyites as for 19th century, or Shoddyite is just an American term for french word nouveaux riche?
Thank you in advance!
Nouveau riches is French and meaning new rich people which no manners and style.
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 09:21 AM   #3

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Shoddy is an archaic term for cheap goods made from inferior materials. I'm unfamiliar with "shoddyite", though it apparently means a person whose life orbits around the cheap and inferior. The origins of "Shoddy" are, I believe, found in the English Industrial Revolution (late 17th through 20th centuries) Modal dates would probably be 1815-1880.

Neither the nouveau riche nor shoddyites would be expected to have highly developed aesthetic sense, though both ape more sophisticated classes. Both might be called pretentious, but easily seen through. The nouveau riche overspend for shinny, classy stuff that is fashionable, while the shoddyite would tear a page out of a calendar to hang as a picture on their tattered wall.
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 09:39 AM   #4
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Shoddy is an archaic term for cheap goods made from inferior materials. I'm unfamiliar with "shoddyite", though it apparently means a person whose life orbits around the cheap and inferior. The origins of "Shoddy" are, I believe, found in the English Industrial Revolution (late 17th through 20th centuries) Modal dates would probably be 1815-1880.

Neither the nouveau riche nor shoddyites would be expected to have highly developed aesthetic sense, though both ape more sophisticated classes. Both might be called pretentious, but easily seen through. The nouveau riche overspend for shinny, classy stuff that is fashionable, while the shoddyite would tear a page out of a calendar to hang as a picture on their tattered wall.
Why there is or between them in the text?
On an early August morning in 1835 a literate majority of New York City's 270,000 citizens awakened to learn of a new phenomenon in their midst. A new age was upon them—the age of showmanship. In the weeks and months before that fateful morning, all classes of New Yorkers—the old-fashioned Knickerbockers, the nouveaux riches or Shoddyites, the professional people and artists—had prided themselves on the fact that they possessed and patronized more churches than places of amusement.
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 09:52 AM   #5

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I assume the "or" is there because the two "classes" referred two are closely related, but not the same. The author is giving the reader an opportunity to interpret for themselves which is most appropriate. Rich with terrible taste for expensive, but crass goods v. the generally poor whose notions of class are confined to the cheap and shoddy. Both groups could be expected to patronize the new showmanship of the new museum and amusements that became popular around that time. 1835, if memory serves is the year that Barnum opened his museum featuring all sorts of oddities. The elephant was a huge success, and everyone wanted to seen the Elephant. Later when gold was discovered in California, the prospectors said they went "to see the elephant". The phrase remained common until after the American Civil War.
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 10:36 AM   #6
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Shoddy is an archaic term for cheap goods made from inferior materials.
Hi Asherman.

A minor nitpick, 'shoddy' is not archaic in the UK - it's still in common use. Interesting that it used to be used in the US, though. I got my hands on some reprints of old American comics form the 1930s and 40s (the early days of Superman, Batman and their ilk), and was surprised by words (like 'bloke') that, from a 21st century viewpoint, sound distinctively British or Antipodean.
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 10:45 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Asherman View Post
I assume the "or" is there because the two "classes" referred two are closely related, but not the same. The author is giving the reader an opportunity to interpret for themselves which is most appropriate. Rich with terrible taste for expensive, but crass goods v. the generally poor whose notions of class are confined to the cheap and shoddy. Both groups could be expected to patronize the new showmanship of the new museum and amusements that became popular around that time. 1835, if memory serves is the year that Barnum opened his museum featuring all sorts of oddities. The elephant was a huge success, and everyone wanted to seen the Elephant. Later when gold was discovered in California, the prospectors said they went "to see the elephant". The phrase remained common until after the American Civil War.
You mean, Shoddyite is very poor, but he also wants to look like a nouveaux riche so wears cheap and shoddy clothes that he thinks make him look like nouveaux riches?
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 10:57 AM   #8
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Hi Asherman.

A minor nitpick, 'shoddy' is not archaic in the UK - it's still in common use. Interesting that it used to be used in the US, though. I got my hands on some reprints of old American comics form the 1930s and 40s (the early days of Superman, Batman and their ilk), and was surprised by words (like 'bloke') that, from a 21st century viewpoint, sound distinctively British or Antipodean.
In today's morning a BE English speaker from UK have replied me that they don't use "Shoddyite" at all
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 11:29 AM   #9
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In today's morning a BE English speaker from UK have replied me that they don't use "Shoddyite" at all
I have never come across the word 'Shoddyite' before either; but the word 'shoddy', which I assume it comes from, is still common.

ABE - most commonly in the phrase 'shoddy workmanship' for something badly made.
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 12:18 PM   #10

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I never came across the word shoddyite before but it turns up here as "imitator of the upper classes."
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