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Old December 27th, 2017, 03:39 PM   #21
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There were no negotiations where the US was willing to discuss Confederate independence. That might have happened if the Confederates were winning.
Neither Buchanan or Lincoln was willing to negotiate Confederate independence? REALLY? I am glad you said that because I forgot that Buchanan and Lincoln were against secession between the time I said it yesterday and just now
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Old December 27th, 2017, 05:31 PM   #22
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Neither Buchanan or Lincoln was willing to negotiate Confederate independence? REALLY? I am glad you said that because I forgot that Buchanan and Lincoln were against secession between the time I said it yesterday and just now
I don't know what we are arguing about. We are totally in agreement on this. However, I don't appreciate your talking to me that way.
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Old December 27th, 2017, 05:51 PM   #23
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I don't know what we are arguing about. We are totally in agreement on this. However, I don't appreciate your talking to me that way.
Betgo, we are not arguing. I wasn't even talking to you in the post you quoted. It was not a statement of anything I thought. I was trying to get a clarification from the other poster as to what he was trying to find out. Go read it again. Can't you see I was asking someone else questions and not making a point for anyone to agree or disagree with? Geez.
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Old December 27th, 2017, 09:20 PM   #24
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For clarification, Im mainly targeting the period December 1860 to 1861.
Were any of the seceded States, or Confederacy, officially offering to pay any share of pre-Secession federal debt then?
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Old December 27th, 2017, 10:08 PM   #25

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The Seceding States had small budgets compared to what you see now. How would you have them pay? The Federal Government was able to levy fees, import duties and tariffs. The states could get a small amount from property taxes and maybe some fees and levies. Louisiana seized the receipts of the Port of New Orleans after she seceded.

The South was what I call Cash Poor. Most of the wealth was tied up in land and Slaves. The most valuable property in the US was the Lafourche District in Southern Louisiana. The most expensive plantation in Louisiana was located by Natchitoches, Louisiana. It was owned by a Free Black. It was run by over 100 Slaves. When General Banks decided to go back down the river after the Red River Campaign failed, the Yankees burned the place. Seems like the New England troops did not approve of a Free Black being rich.

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Old December 28th, 2017, 12:00 AM   #26
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The Seceding States had small budgets compared to what you see now. How would you have them pay? The Federal Government was able to levy fees, import duties and tariffs. The states could get a small amount from property taxes and maybe some fees and levies. Louisiana seized the receipts of the Port of New Orleans after she seceded.
Precisely. The incomes the seceding States were seizing. Were they offering to pay a share of the federal debt out of those receipts? (And some federal creditors were their own citizens, too... and legal persons, like banks of New Orleans).
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Old December 28th, 2017, 12:05 AM   #27
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For clarification, Im mainly targeting the period December 1860 to 1861.
Were any of the seceded States, or Confederacy, officially offering to pay any share of pre-Secession federal debt then?
I have never heard of such a thing. The first seven "cotton" states seceded in just 6 week between Dec 20, 1860 and Feb 1 1861. In early 1862 they had formed the Confederate army and started creating an army. Five of the first seven states wrote secession declarations claiming the many ways the felt they had been wronged by the government, none of them offered to pay the federal government anything. From December until Lincoln's inauguration During this time they are confiscating anything belonging to the federal government they could. Arkansas militia seize two federal arms stores two months before Arkansas seceded.

Pruitt is right about the South being cash poor (but you should ignore his comment about the plantation being burned because New Englanders disliked wealthy Blacks until he documents it). The Confederate government started selling bonds very early to raise money, the Confederate economy was bad at the beginning and only got worse.

Secession was very hostile and the Confederate states were not trying to make nice with the federal government. I can't say for sure that no southern state offered to pay on the federal debt, but I've seen hundreds of claims from Lost Causers that the southern secessionists were peaceful and highly moral, but for all of the points they throw up for evidence of this supposed peacefulness and high morality, I never heard any of them claim that a southern state made such an offer.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 09:34 AM   #28
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The attempts to mediate in early 1861 centered around protection of slavery with the seceding states rejoining the Union. The US was not willing to consider independence at that point or in early 1865. When the Confederacy was doing relatively well in 1862, there were no negotiations, and the US was still not likely to consider independence.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 11:39 AM   #29

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Document it?


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Pruitt is right about the South being cash poor (but you should ignore his comment about the plantation being burned because New Englanders disliked wealthy Blacks until he documents it).
What would you consider "documentation"? I have a number of books on the Red River Campaign and the Civil War in Louisiana. Have you read any books on Yankee troops in Louisiana? If Banks' New England Troops did not burn the plantation when they got there, Smith's Division (The Gorillas) certainly did on the way back down the river. Louisiana had a large number of Free Blacks and many were prosperous enough to own Slaves. It certainly was a shock to the troops in Banks' Army to see a Black man owned the best plantation in Louisiana. It is also a fact that Butler's and Banks' New England troops in Louisiana did not like Slaves and were not above robbing, beating and a bit of rape. They blamed the poor Slaves for them being there.

Still if you care to do your own reading I suggest:
"The Civil War in Louisiana" by John D Winters
"The Red River Campaign" by Gary Joiner

Donald S Frazier will be coming out with a book called: "The Contest for the Red River and the Collapse of Confederate Louisiana"

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Old December 28th, 2017, 02:06 PM   #30
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What would you consider "documentation"? I have a number of books on the Red River Campaign and the Civil War in Louisiana. Have you read any books on Yankee troops in Louisiana? If Banks' New England Troops did not burn the plantation when they got there, Smith's Division (The Gorillas) certainly did on the way back down the river. Louisiana had a large number of Free Blacks and many were prosperous enough to own Slaves. It certainly was a shock to the troops in Banks' Army to see a Black man owned the best plantation in Louisiana. It is also a fact that Butler's and Banks' New England troops in Louisiana did not like Slaves and were not above robbing, beating and a bit of rape. They blamed the poor Slaves for them being there.

Still if you care to do your own reading I suggest:
"The Civil War in Louisiana" by John D Winters
"The Red River Campaign" by Gary Joiner

Donald S Frazier will be coming out with a book called: "The Contest for the Red River and the Collapse of Confederate Louisiana"

Pruitt
Nothing you just said shows that anyone actually burnt the plantation because the man was wealthy. The union destroyed many plantations, usually because they were producing something (cotton, food) that could support the Confederate war effort. So far it seems to be a claim concocted by you, so I'm not going to read several books for something that probably isn't there. But if you provide a quote one of those authors saying that is why the plantation was burnt, Then I'll look into it.
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