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Old June 26th, 2018, 08:50 PM   #1
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the empire of the americas


What would have been the best time in Brazilian history for him to get a coast to the Pacific or a coast to the Caribbean (if possible both)?
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Old June 27th, 2018, 05:37 AM   #2

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"him" is who?

Maybe you mean "Brazil" as in 'when could it have been possible for Brazil to extend its borders to the Pacific and Carribean coasts'?

Wasn't Brazil (Portuguese) and the Spanish colonies' land area limited by a treaty?
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Old June 27th, 2018, 08:26 AM   #3

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After his independence, nearly every other South American country, ignored Brazil only after some lands that Ecuador and Colombia claimed as his own were conquered that they signed treaties with Brazil, but making to Pacific was never a Brazilian plan, add to that it is hard to march over, the Andes, Atacama, Altiplano.
But the best time, maybe 1850 to 1855 the Empire was entering his golden age.
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Old June 30th, 2018, 07:56 PM   #4
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"him" is who?
Relic of translation. The word for "it" and "him" are the same in many languages.
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Old June 30th, 2018, 09:16 PM   #5
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A country that really covets territory on the Pacific is Bolivia. They lost their Pacific coast after a war with Chile. Now a landlocked country, Bolivia has not given up the idea of regaining her Pacific window.
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Old July 8th, 2018, 07:18 AM   #6

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A country that really covets territory on the Pacific is Bolivia. They lost their Pacific coast after a war with Chile. Now a landlocked country, Bolivia has not given up the idea of regaining her Pacific window.
Interesting!
Do we have any English speaking Bolivians here who might weigh in on this?
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Old July 9th, 2018, 04:07 AM   #7

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A country that really covets territory on the Pacific is Bolivia. They lost their Pacific coast after a war with Chile. Now a landlocked country, Bolivia has not given up the idea of regaining her Pacific window.
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Interesting!
Do we have any English speaking Bolivians here who might weigh in on this?
War of the Pacific 1879-84 - I've got the book somewhere. Where Peru and Bolivia very unwisely took on the much more powerful and better oranised Chile, took a good hiding and Bolivia lost all access to the sea. They keep petitioning the UN to get it back, so far to no avail.
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Old July 13th, 2018, 05:38 AM   #8

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Brazil did reach the Caribbean once - when D. João VI annexed the French Guyana in response to Bonaparte's invasion of Portugal. However, the territory was given back by decision of the Congress of Vienna. Afterwards, there are three occasions I see as opportunities for re-annexation. In the late 19th century, a border conflict arose between Brazil and France over the state of Amapá (neighbor to the French Guyana). The latter didn't recognize the Oiapoque river as the frontier between the two provinces, claiming a 260.000km² territory of Brazil. The conflict escalated in 1895, and a small French company of soldiers occupied the contested land. The local Brazilians reacted violently. Over 40 nationals died, but the French were repealed by the resistance led by Francisco "Cabralzinho" Xavier and the question was solved through Swiss mediation, whose conclusion was entirely favorable to Brazil. The murder of Brazilian citizenry could have been used as justification for war, but the infant republic was already overwhelmed by domestic problems, including widespread military indiscipline.

The next opportunity emerged with the defeat and occupation of France in WWII, the establishment of the Vichy regime and the entry of Brazil on the conflict siding with the Allies. Unlike in the early republic, Brazil was then under a nationalist regime heavily influenced by European fascism. President Getúlio Vargas was in power since 1930, after he defeated the old oligarchies. The new government followed a policy of special attention towards national security. New border territories were created and the Armed Forces were strengthened, numbering 100,000 soldiers in the 1940s if I recall correctly. The Vargas government did consider a potential annexation of the French Guyana after the Battle of France, but discarded it in order to avoid conflict with the Allied leadership. However, if this idea had been upheld before the turning points of the war in 1942 - 1943, the Allies could have conceded, specially the United States.

The second opportunity was enabled in the early 60s amidst the late turbulence of the Fourth Republic. On 3 August 1961 the eccentric President Jânio Quadros ordered the governor of Amapá to start preparations for the invasion of the French Guyana over French clandestine mining of manganese on Brazilian territory being exported through Cayenne. This project would fulfill his dreams of a country spamming form the Caribbean to the Plate (maybe supported by the re-annexation of another former province, Uruguay). The plan was dubbed Operação Cabralzinho (in reference to the hero of 1895) and involved 2.500 soldiers of the three branches. The project was soon after aborted upon the President's resignation (actually a failed self-coup attempt) twelve days later. Had the invasion been carried on, the possibility of war would be very real, just like a few years later.

In 1961 French ships were conducting clandestine lobster fishing on waters claimed by Brazil. Warned by local fishers, the Brazilian Navy ordered the French to leave. They refused and sent signals to the French Navy requiring help. The dispute escalated, and De Gaulle became furious upon hearing the news. He dispatched war vessels to ensure the safety of the French ships. The Brazilian Navy and the 4th Army were mobilized by President Goulart. By April of 1963 both nations were considering war. In the end, the dispute was solved through mutual agreement. Had war ensued, Brazil could have invaded the French Guyana and win, seeing that the France was already burdened by the Algerian War of Independence.

Replying the other question, I see no realistic chance of Brazil ever reaching the Pacific. Unlike the United States, it was geographically impossible for Portugal to extend its domains towards the western coast of South America. The colonization and preservation of the Amazon Rainforest was already a remarkable feat of Portugal. The Andes blocked the way. The denseness of the jungle wouldn't allow any sizable migration of settlers. And right in this region was located the Viceroyalty of Peru, the center of Spanish colonial power in South America. However, there was at least one early Portuguese explorer who travelled from the delta of the Amazon river, crossed the Andes and reached Quito. The passage was a difficult but possible one.

Last edited by Diogo Morales; July 13th, 2018 at 05:48 AM.
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Old July 13th, 2018, 06:52 AM   #9

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War of the Pacific 1879-84 - I've got the book somewhere. Where Peru and Bolivia very unwisely took on the much more powerful and better oranised Chile, took a good hiding and Bolivia lost all access to the sea. They keep petitioning the UN to get it back, so far to no avail.
One of the sadder things I've seen in my travels is the National Historical Museum in Lima, Peru, which discusses the War of the Pacific. And Peru came out of it much better than Bolivia.

But Tairusiano and Diogo are correct--no way for Brasil to reach the Pacific given the geography and the Treaty of Tordesillas, the violation of which would have brought the wrath of Spain and the Pope down upon them.

Last edited by David Vagamundo; July 13th, 2018 at 06:55 AM.
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