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Old July 6th, 2018, 01:00 AM   #11

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Originally Posted by kundaliniexpress View Post
Also another problem, too many malcontent. Filipinos back then were simply not organized and many Filipinos switched sides. The Americans used that, so even if Luna lived, he would have lost many of his men to desertion

I don't think the Americans can persuade the Filipino masses to accept American rule w/o a fight and most of Filipino generals came from humble beginnings except General Luna who was born from an affluent family.



perhaps they can persuade some crooked Filipino elites to embrace American rule in the island nations.


I suspect that it was the Pro American Filipino elites who have persuaded President Aguinaldo to silence General Luna forever by fear mongering that General Luna will overthrow Aguinaldo and become the dictator over the whole island nation.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 01:25 AM   #12
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Well if the Americans withdrew from the Philippines after the war; I foresee that Muslim Mindanao will never be part of present Philippine Republic.


Muslim Mindanao will become another nation.



I foresee that Philippines will not be well managed because most of Filipinos are not that educated.


I foresee a lot of smart shaming and infighting among government officials.



it was the Americans who mass educated the Filipino population after they successfully had conquered the Philippines.


thank to the Americans. because of them Muslim Mindanao is part of present Filipino Republic because they were the only ones who reunified the whole island nation which the Spaniards had failed to do so.
But how come so many say that they are the reason why the Philippines is poor and is what it is today, especially on YouTube and Quora?

Here's some I can remember:

They lied to us about independence,
We are not independent because they never gave it to us,
They invaded us because they wanted to steal our resources,
They fund rebels and terrorists in the Philippines,
They don't want the Philippines to be rich,
If they didn't invade us, we would be rich today,
If they didn't invade us, we would be spared WW2,
If they didn't invade us, we wouldn't be brainwashed.

Last edited by kundaliniexpress; July 6th, 2018 at 01:36 AM.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 07:18 AM   #13

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But how come so many say that they are the reason why the Philippines is poor and is what it is today, especially on YouTube and Quora?

Here's some I can remember:

They lied to us about independence,
We are not independent because they never gave it to us,
They invaded us because they wanted to steal our resources,
They fund rebels and terrorists in the Philippines,
They don't want the Philippines to be rich,
If they didn't invade us, we would be rich today,
If they didn't invade us, we would be spared WW2,
If they didn't invade us, we wouldn't be brainwashed.

Life was better in the Philippines during post World War 2 era until 1970. it is 2nd to Japan in economic progress because of mostly American aid.


The Philippines is independent from foreign invaders but not from US influence.


The Philippines is a poor nation because the elites and gov't officials inherited the exploitative and corrupt traits of the Spanish officials. it became worse from Marcos regime until today.


add to the fact that a lot of Filipino people voted for corrupt officials after receiving a bribe during elections.


Is the US stealing resources? I don't think so. I call it sharing because most of Filipino politicians except the present president are pro American.


US will just request and the Filipino politicians in the top government will comply.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 08:53 AM   #14

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Interesting material here!
Thank you jameen for your contributions to this forum.
While the Philippines were a territory of the United States for close to 50 years, it is interesting that they retain the methods and styles of other former Spanish colonies around the world, such as Latin America with so many dictatorships in the past.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 04:07 PM   #15
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The Philippines is independent from foreign invaders but not from US influence.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

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Is the US stealing resources? I don't think so. I call it sharing because most of Filipino politicians except the present president are pro American.
So the US can no longer share in Filipino resources?
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Old July 6th, 2018, 04:34 PM   #16
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Life was better in the Philippines during post World War 2 era until 1970. it is 2nd to Japan in economic progress because of mostly American aid.
I found this on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Philippines..._being_a_poor/

"It always was, it just wasn't that obvious before.

I had a grandmother telling me that PH was poor way before the dictatorship.

She probably has more sense than everyone who keeps insisting we were "second to Japan" before 1972.

Maybe the brand-new Makati felt like that back then, but Tondo? The provinces? I doubt there was any real difference between poverty levels on a hacienda back then and a hacienda now—or Tondo back then and Tondo (and a whole lot of other slum areas) now.

Back then, we already had oligarchs, we had greedy and power-hungry dynasties. You don't get to be a dynasty without continuity in power for decades or longer—and since 1972 was just 45 years ago, a lot of dynasties and oligarch families have had power for much longer than that." - raori921

Click the image to open in full size.

Manila during the 60's.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 06:27 PM   #17
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So the thread host Jameen supported the American colonization of the Philippines, and recognized its contribution to the development of the Philippines.

Interesting, because I totally disliked the American imperialism at all. That meant I have an excellent rival in debate. I need to gather information by reading Oliver Stone’s or all else books that offer me the anti-American ammunitions to counterattack his arguments.

Prepare for battle, Jameen-kun.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 07:26 PM   #18
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So the thread host Jameen supported the American colonization of the Philippines, and recognized its contribution to the development of the Philippines.

Interesting, because I totally disliked the American imperialism at all. That meant I have an excellent rival in debate. I need to gather information by reading Oliver Stone’s or all else books that offer me the anti-American ammunitions to counterattack his arguments.

Prepare for battle, Jameen-kun.
Naaah, you don't need to read anybooks.

Here's their reason why it was evil:

They lied to us about about giving us freedom,
They killed millions of us,
We are not independent because they never gave it to us,
They invaded us because they wanted to steal our resources,
They fund rebels and terrorists in the Philippines,
They don't want the Philippines to be rich,
If they didn't invade us, we would be rich today,
If they didn't invade us, we would be spared WW2,
If they didn't invade us, we wouldn't be brainwashed.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 07:35 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by jameen View Post
Well if the Americans withdrew from the Philippines after the war; I foresee that Muslim Mindanao will never be part of present Philippine Republic.


Muslim Mindanao will become another nation.



I foresee that Philippines will not be well managed because most of Filipinos are not that educated.


I foresee a lot of smart shaming and infighting among government officials.



it was the Americans who mass educated the Filipino population after they successfully had conquered the Philippines.


thank to the Americans. because of them Muslim Mindanao is part of present Filipino Republic because they were the only ones who reunified the whole island nation which the Spaniards had failed to do so.
Tokugawa Ieyasu says that the Americans are evil and what they did to you was evil.
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Old July 7th, 2018, 06:38 AM   #20
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Is the US stealing resources? I don't think so. I call it sharing because most of Filipino politicians except the present president are pro American.

US will just request and the Filipino politicians in the top government will comply.
I'm terribly shock of your...viewpoint, Jameen. To be frank, your historical view is "distorted" by the myth of Americanism, or said the American-centered superiority that ignores many factors which you haven't known yet.

Now I'm going to point out why I disagree with you, by utilizing the famous US filmmaker Oliver Stone's documentary The Untold History of the United States (anybody really dislike the American imperialism would surely love his work).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZBRcdy7ndI (Jameen, I recommend you to watch this for the part of the American-Spanish War and the American-Philippine War)

Why USA desired to attack the Spanish Empire in 1898 ? For liberating the oppressed Cuban or the Philippines from the tyrannical and cruel rule of the Spaniards ? For spreading liberty and democracy to these areas ? Of course....NOT. It's because as the native uprising against the Spaniards broke out, the powerful businessmen and bankers like Morgans and Rockefellers, who had millions invested on the island of Cuba "demanded" the USA President to take action for safeguarding their commerical interest.

President Mckinley sent the USS Maine to Havana Harbor as a demonstration. USA was keeping an eye on his "interest". And then the "mysterious explosion" got the USS Maine blown in Feburary 1898, offering the best "excuse" for the American imperialists (privileged classes like bankers, industrialists, businessmen...etc) to pursue their goals of annexation of the Spanish colonies.

The US yellow press mogul William Randolph Hearst intentionally agitated the climate for war. The Journals cry : Remember the Maine. To hell with Spain ! Millions read it, convinced that Spain, this decaying Catholic power was nefariously exacting all kinds of terror to preserve his colonial empire. When Mckinley declared war, Hearst took credit.

The American-Spanish lasted over three months, ended with the American crushing victory. Hereafter, the American businessmen swept in, grabbed the Philippine assets as they could. USA forced the Filipinos accept his "custody" over the Philippines, effectively turned the Philippines into a "protectorate".

One anti-imperialist noted : "(the US Admiral) Dewey took Manila with a loss of one man, and all of our institution (of non-expansion foreign policy)."

Mark Twain once famously asked : "Shall we go on conferring our civilization upon the people that sit in darkness or shall we give these poor things a rest ? "

President Mckinley did not share that mindset, opting finally for annexation. He arrogantly claimed :

"There was nothing left for us to do but to take the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and christianize them ; and by God's grace, do the very best we could by them, as our fellow men for whom Christ also died ! "

Wow, conquer and annex the other country in the name of liberty, civilization and the almighty God ! The utmost hypocrisy of the American imperialists !!

Of course, the fiery Filipino revolutionary leaders such like Emilio Aguinaldo was not going to relinquish their nation's independence and freedom to "another empire". They fought valiantly and conducted a series of military campaigns against the American army, both sides carried out many atrocities with large number of native inhabitants died in starvation and disease.

When rebels ambushed the American troops on the Island of Samar, US Colonel Jacob Smith ordered his men to kill every Filipines over the age of 10 !!! Such was what the "civilized" American army did during the war, turned the whole island to a howling wilderness.

So...what was the true significance of USA in his annexation of the Philippines ? Rethink about it yourself and throw away all those Americanism-based ideals, Jemmen.

Even nowaday, the Filipino President Dutarte emphasized his resentment over USA partly because of such an ignominous history of the USA colonization and exploitation of his own country !

Last edited by Tokugawa Ieyasu; July 7th, 2018 at 06:47 AM.
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