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Old July 7th, 2018, 03:21 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Tokugawa Ieyasu View Post
I'm terribly shock of your...viewpoint, Jameen. To be frank, your historical view is "distorted" by the myth of Americanism, or said the American-centered superiority that ignores many factors which you haven't known yet.

Now I'm going to point out why I disagree with you, by utilizing the famous US filmmaker Oliver Stone's documentary The Untold History of the United States (anybody really dislike the American imperialism would surely love his work).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZBRcdy7ndI (Jameen, I recommend you to watch this for the part of the American-Spanish War and the American-Philippine War)

Why USA desired to attack the Spanish Empire in 1898 ? For liberating the oppressed Cuban or the Philippines from the tyrannical and cruel rule of the Spaniards ? For spreading liberty and democracy to these areas ? Of course....NOT. It's because as the native uprising against the Spaniards broke out, the powerful businessmen and bankers like Morgans and Rockefellers, who had millions invested on the island of Cuba "demanded" the USA President to take action for safeguarding their commerical interest.

President Mckinley sent the USS Maine to Havana Harbor as a demonstration. USA was keeping an eye on his "interest". And then the "mysterious explosion" got the USS Maine blown in Feburary 1898, offering the best "excuse" for the American imperialists (privileged classes like bankers, industrialists, businessmen...etc) to pursue their goals of annexation of the Spanish colonies.

The US yellow press mogul William Randolph Hearst intentionally agitated the climate for war. The Journals cry : Remember the Maine. To hell with Spain ! Millions read it, convinced that Spain, this decaying Catholic power was nefariously exacting all kinds of terror to preserve his colonial empire. When Mckinley declared war, Hearst took credit.

The American-Spanish lasted over three months, ended with the American crushing victory. Hereafter, the American businessmen swept in, grabbed the Philippine assets as they could. USA forced the Filipinos accept his "custody" over the Philippines, effectively turned the Philippines into a "protectorate".

One anti-imperialist noted : "(the US Admiral) Dewey took Manila with a loss of one man, and all of our institution (of non-expansion foreign policy)."

Mark Twain once famously asked : "Shall we go on conferring our civilization upon the people that sit in darkness or shall we give these poor things a rest ? "

President Mckinley did not share that mindset, opting finally for annexation. He arrogantly claimed :

"There was nothing left for us to do but to take the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and christianize them ; and by God's grace, do the very best we could by them, as our fellow men for whom Christ also died ! "

Wow, conquer and annex the other country in the name of liberty, civilization and the almighty God ! The utmost hypocrisy of the American imperialists !!

Of course, the fiery Filipino revolutionary leaders such like Emilio Aguinaldo was not going to relinquish their nation's independence and freedom to "another empire". They fought valiantly and conducted a series of military campaigns against the American army, both sides carried out many atrocities with large number of native inhabitants died in starvation and disease.

When rebels ambushed the American troops on the Island of Samar, US Colonel Jacob Smith ordered his men to kill every Filipines over the age of 10 !!! Such was what the "civilized" American army did during the war, turned the whole island to a howling wilderness.

So...what was the true significance of USA in his annexation of the Philippines ? Rethink about it yourself and throw away all those Americanism-based ideals, Jemmen.

Even nowaday, the Filipino President Dutarte emphasized his resentment over USA partly because of such an ignominous history of the USA colonization and exploitation of his own country !
I've been asking Filipinos over at Reddit and Quora, if Americans are evil, why doesn't the Philippines sever ties with them and kick all Americans out, Isn't that what Duterte wanted anyways? I wonder what's taking him so long...... I also asked questions that are related to that question but I won't say it here. There were some positive comments on Quora but most of them said I was stupid on that site and didn't know what I was talking about. On Reddit most of them said that I should stop smoking weed.

Still on Reddit, I keep saying, hey, you are poor because of Americans and they said, nope, we are poor because of ourselves, only fools blame others, they claimed.

Eventually I got frustrated and asked why they are so brainwashed, one of them said "If I don't agree with your viewpoint, then I'm brainwashed" or something like, I'm paraphrasing of course. At this point I was well known, so most of the comments I would get was either curses or I'm on drugs.

What is wrong with these people?

When I'm asking Europe or Canada the same thing, I get more positive responses and I would demand action immediately but of course they would give me a bunch of excuses and say "no need, they are destroying themselves on their own."

So we have world that's brainwashed and a world that does not want to do anything?

Here's some of the questions, I posted:

https://www.pinoyexchange.com/discus...y-americans/p2
https://www.quora.com/If-America-is-...nes-destroy-it

Last edited by kundaliniexpress; July 7th, 2018 at 03:27 PM.
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Old July 7th, 2018, 05:01 PM   #22

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokugawa Ieyasu View Post
President Mckinley did not share that mindset, opting finally for annexation. He arrogantly claimed :

"There was nothing left for us to do but to take the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and christianize them ; and by God's grace, do the very best we could by them, as our fellow men for whom Christ also died ! "
The Americans really uplift; civilize and christianize my compatriots.

during the American colonization life was better because a lot of people studied and the ailing infrastructures were fixed by Americans.

The people had good lives because they felt the economic progress under American rule.

why should I believe in a foreigner instead of my own compatriots? even my grand mother told me what I am telling you.

Some Filipinos even want my country to be an American territory such as Guam and Puerto Rico because of the great progress done by the Americans in the Philippines.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokugawa Ieyasu View Post
Wow, conquer and annex the other country in the name of liberty, civilization and the almighty God ! The utmost hypocrisy of the American imperialists !!

Of course, the fiery Filipino revolutionary leaders such like Emilio Aguinaldo was not going to relinquish their nation's independence and freedom to "another empire". They fought valiantly and conducted a series of military campaigns against the American army, both sides carried out many atrocities with large number of native inhabitants died in starvation and disease.

When rebels ambushed the American troops on the Island of Samar, US Colonel Jacob Smith ordered his men to kill every Filipines over the age of 10 !!! Such was what the "civilized" American army did during the war, turned the whole island to a howling wilderness.

So...what was the true significance of USA in his annexation of the Philippines ? Rethink about it yourself and throw away all those Americanism-based ideals, Jemmen.

Filipino history books also acknowledged the brutality of American troops during the Filipino-American war.


but again when the Americans ruled the country after the war


they really did a lot of good things in my country:

1) mass educated the Filipinos


2) fix the ailing infrastructures


3) gave my compatriots the better life than during the Spanish rule because progress was felt under the benevolent colonial rule of the Americans


even our mountain people in the Northern Philippines also loved the Americans because they were not treated harshly unlike the Spaniards.


In fact almost of them embraced the Protestant branch of Christianity which the Americans had imported in my country.


as return of goodwill of the good treatment of the Americans to them.


US military history also acknowledged the brutality of US troops in Samar and after the incident the US military had relieved the officers responsible on that incident and court martial the general leading that massacre.


Ah not only in Samar did the US troops had shown its brutality. even in Sulu too which President Duterte also exposed during one of his speeches.


Quote:
Even nowaday, the Filipino President Dutarte emphasized his resentment over USA partly because of such an ignominous history of the USA colonization and exploitation of his own country !

all colonial powers during that time exploited countries but the difference is American rule also gave the Filipinos good life and education which the Spaniards had failed to do so.

Our president is anti American because he learned it from his former Communist professor and it is because he does not want the US to interfere on the domestic policies of our government the reason he adapted the so called independent foreign policy today.

P.S. Now you know why Philippines is strongly PRO AMERICAN and other former US colonies such as Guam and Puerto Rico became US territories because they people there really wanted it.


some of my compatriots even want the Philippines as US territory instead of being a corrupt , poor and politically divided nation.

Last edited by jameen; July 7th, 2018 at 05:07 PM.
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Old July 7th, 2018, 06:19 PM   #23
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Quote:
The Americans really uplift; civilize and christianize my compatriots.

during the American colonization life was better because a lot of people studied and the ailing infrastructures were fixed by Americans.

The people had good lives because they felt the economic progress under American rule.
I admit, the American colonial rule of the Philippines was very progressive and clever, highly different with the previous Spanish rule the extremely pure form of exploitation that care nothing about the welfare of the native people.

Under the American rule, the Filipinos' literacy rate increased owing to implement of public education system, the exportation increased with the introduction of American fund and industries, the communication facilitated with the improvement of transportation system such as railway network, the better consciousness and knowledge of hygiene and sanitation, the concept of democratic rule, equalitarianism and high degree of freedom. And then a fresh generation of political elites prepared for takeover of the incoming Filipino independent government.

Those American directors did an excellent job in establishing the pro-American regime the perfect scheme that made the Philippines as his "pawn" while acting like a great benefactor. Just like pick up an orphan, nurture him, make him an "adopted son" that could be very useful for self, and this good son would feel gratitude towards "Uncle Sam" forever.

However, we cannot omit the fact that the United States was also exploiting the Filipino economy by grabbing its natural resource and forcing the Filipinos to purchase the expensive industrial manufactured goods.

Meanwhile, during the colonial era, many American never viewed the Filipino as their "equal", treated them just as the "second-class citizen" or the "Little Brown", and worst, the "uncivilized savage". Such racial discrimination severely hampered the built up of friendship between two nations.

The over-admiration of the American materialistic life and culture also pretty much caused much negative impact on the Filipino spiritual heritage and culture. the Filipino seemed lost their root in the trend of "over-Americanization".

For enhancing the understanding over the issue of the "American colonial rule" in the Philippines, I think it's necessary to dig out more researching works done by scholars to have a more comprehensive view, from various viewpoint.
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Old July 7th, 2018, 07:58 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokugawa Ieyasu View Post
I admit, the American colonial rule of the Philippines was very progressive and clever, highly different with the previous Spanish rule the extremely pure form of exploitation that care nothing about the welfare of the native people.

Under the American rule, the Filipinos' literacy rate increased owing to implement of public education system, the exportation increased with the introduction of American fund and industries, the communication facilitated with the improvement of transportation system such as railway network, the better consciousness and knowledge of hygiene and sanitation, the concept of democratic rule, equalitarianism and high degree of freedom. And then a fresh generation of political elites prepared for takeover of the incoming Filipino independent government.

Those American directors did an excellent job in establishing the pro-American regime the perfect scheme that made the Philippines as his "pawn" while acting like a great benefactor. Just like pick up an orphan, nurture him, make him an "adopted son" that could be very useful for self, and this good son would feel gratitude towards "Uncle Sam" forever.

However, we cannot omit the fact that the United States was also exploiting the Filipino economy by grabbing its natural resource and forcing the Filipinos to purchase the expensive industrial manufactured goods.

Meanwhile, during the colonial era, many American never viewed the Filipino as their "equal", treated them just as the "second-class citizen" or the "Little Brown", and worst, the "uncivilized savage". Such racial discrimination severely hampered the built up of friendship between two nations.

The over-admiration of the American materialistic life and culture also pretty much caused much negative impact on the Filipino spiritual heritage and culture. the Filipino seemed lost their root in the trend of "over-Americanization".

For enhancing the understanding over the issue of the "American colonial rule" in the Philippines, I think it's necessary to dig out more researching works done by scholars to have a more comprehensive view, from various viewpoint.
So the Filipinos would have been far better without the Americans today?
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Old July 7th, 2018, 08:14 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jameen View Post
The Americans really uplift; civilize and christianize my compatriots.

during the American colonization life was better because a lot of people studied and the ailing infrastructures were fixed by Americans.

The people had good lives because they felt the economic progress under American rule.

why should I believe in a foreigner instead of my own compatriots? even my grand mother told me what I am telling you.

Some Filipinos even want my country to be an American territory such as Guam and Puerto Rico because of the great progress done by the Americans in the Philippines.





Filipino history books also acknowledged the brutality of American troops during the Filipino-American war.


but again when the Americans ruled the country after the war


they really did a lot of good things in my country:

1) mass educated the Filipinos


2) fix the ailing infrastructures


3) gave my compatriots the better life than during the Spanish rule because progress was felt under the benevolent colonial rule of the Americans


even our mountain people in the Northern Philippines also loved the Americans because they were not treated harshly unlike the Spaniards.


In fact almost of them embraced the Protestant branch of Christianity which the Americans had imported in my country.


as return of goodwill of the good treatment of the Americans to them.


US military history also acknowledged the brutality of US troops in Samar and after the incident the US military had relieved the officers responsible on that incident and court martial the general leading that massacre.


Ah not only in Samar did the US troops had shown its brutality. even in Sulu too which President Duterte also exposed during one of his speeches.





all colonial powers during that time exploited countries but the difference is American rule also gave the Filipinos good life and education which the Spaniards had failed to do so.

Our president is anti American because he learned it from his former Communist professor and it is because he does not want the US to interfere on the domestic policies of our government the reason he adapted the so called independent foreign policy today.

P.S. Now you know why Philippines is strongly PRO AMERICAN and other former US colonies such as Guam and Puerto Rico became US territories because they people there really wanted it.


some of my compatriots even want the Philippines as US territory instead of being a corrupt , poor and politically divided nation.
Hey, how come none of these buildings were rebuilt to their original designs. I mean I understand if they were not rebuilt to its original because of money problems but how about now?

Original Legislative building:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

New Legislative/National Museum building

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Old Jones Bridge:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

New Jones Bridge:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

- Jones Bridge 1960's

The old designs were the only good ones..... pity.
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Old July 7th, 2018, 08:32 PM   #26

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So the Filipinos would have been far better without the Americans today?

No. Most Filipinos prefer to be an American territory than a corrupt, divided and poor independent state.


I myself prefer it.
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Old July 7th, 2018, 08:43 PM   #27

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokugawa Ieyasu View Post
I admit, the American colonial rule of the Philippines was very progressive and clever, highly different with the previous Spanish rule — the extremely pure form of exploitation that care nothing about the welfare of the native people.

Under the American rule, the Filipinos' literacy rate increased owing to implement of public education system, the exportation increased with the introduction of American fund and industries, the communication facilitated with the improvement of transportation system such as railway network, the better consciousness and knowledge of hygiene and sanitation, the concept of democratic rule, equalitarianism and high degree of freedom. And then a fresh generation of political elites prepared for takeover of the incoming Filipino independent government.

At least you are fair and not derogatory unlike other historians.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokugawa Ieyasu View Post
Those American directors did an excellent job in establishing the pro-American regime — the perfect scheme that made the Philippines as his "pawn" while acting like a great benefactor. Just like pick up an orphan, nurture him, make him an "adopted son" that could be very useful for self, and this good son would feel gratitude towards "Uncle Sam" forever.

Agree and it is better than the very clear exploitative and very racist form of colonization of the Spaniards.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokugawa Ieyasu View Post
However, we cannot omit the fact that the United States was also exploiting the Filipino economy by grabbing its natural resource and forcing the Filipinos to purchase the expensive industrial manufactured goods.

Meanwhile, during the colonial era, many American never viewed the Filipino as their "equal", treated them just as the "second-class citizen" or the "Little Brown", and worst, the "uncivilized savage". Such racial discrimination severely hampered the built up of friendship between two nations.

The over-admiration of the American materialistic life and culture also pretty much caused much negative impact on the Filipino spiritual heritage and culture. the Filipino seemed lost their root in the trend of "over-Americanization".

For enhancing the understanding over the issue of the "American colonial rule" in the Philippines, I think it's necessary to dig out more researching works done by scholars to have a more comprehensive view, from various viewpoint.

I also admit it. but choosing all colonizers of the Philippines, the Americans are the best of all.


at least even they had exploited the country's natural resources, the Americans never failed to educate and give good life to its subjects.


even today it is still the Americans who train Filipino troops and give high paying jobs enough to feed your family through BPO industries.


even there is an exchange of it -INTERFERING ON OUR COUNTRY'S DOMESTIC AFFAIRS, BE A CANNON FODDER AGAINST CHINA AND LET THE YANKS ACCESS TO OUR COUNTRY'S RESOURCES FOR THEIR BENEFIT TOO -


which President Duterte do not want.



Our present president even exposed a hoax bombing supposedly done by terrorists but in fact by Americans just to convince the Philippine government to allow the presence of American troops in the Southern Philippines.


Always remember that w/o the American colonization, the Muslim majority area Bangsamoro Region will never be part of the present Philippines.


it is believed that region is rich with methane gas and oil and I believe the Americans will never let it fall from the hands of Muslim separatists who wished independence from Philippine government.


the reason why the US sent its spy planes and gave guns when fighting ISIS inspired terrorist group last year.


Don't worry I am not one of those Filipinos who see Americans as if they are saints or Godlike.


I know they are exploitative in discreet unlike the Spaniards who clearly shows it.

Last edited by jameen; July 7th, 2018 at 08:45 PM.
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Old July 7th, 2018, 08:54 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by jameen View Post
At least you are fair and not derogatory unlike other historians.








Agree and it is better than the very clear exploitative and very racist form of colonization of the Spaniards.





I also admit it. but choosing all colonizers of the Philippines, the Americans are the best of all.


at least even they had exploited the country's natural resources, the Americans never failed to educate and give good life to its subjects.


even today it is still the Americans who train Filipino troops and give high paying jobs enough to feed your family through BPO industries.


even there is an exchange of it -INTERFERING ON OUR COUNTRY'S DOMESTIC AFFAIRS, BE A CANNON FODDER AGAINST CHINA AND LET THE YANKS ACCESS TO OUR COUNTRY'S RESOURCES FOR THEIR BENEFIT TOO -


which President Duterte do not want.



Our present president even exposed a hoax bombing supposedly done by terrorists but in fact by Americans just to convince the Philippine government to allow the presence of American troops in the Southern Philippines.


Always remember that w/o the American colonization, the Muslim majority area Bangsamoro Region will never be part of the present Philippines.


it is believed that region is rich with methane gas and oil and I believe the Americans will never let it fall from the hands of Muslim separatists who wished independence from Philippine government.


the reason why the US sent its spy planes and gave guns when fighting ISIS inspired terrorist group last year.


Don't worry I am not one of those Filipinos who see Americans as if they are saints or Godlike.


I know they are exploitative in discreet unlike the Spaniards who clearly shows it.
Hey, you never answered my question about why those buildings were not rebuilt to their original designs? Does the government still lack funds?
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Old July 8th, 2018, 07:15 AM   #29

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We know many Philippinos here in California, mostly all in the medical field working at hospitals... and it still 'seems' that the Philippines is a part of the United States in how comfortable we all are together and the travel between our two countries is easy.
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Old July 8th, 2018, 10:10 PM   #30
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We know many Philippinos here in California, mostly all in the medical field working at hospitals... and it still 'seems' that the Philippines is a part of the United States in how comfortable we all are together and the travel between our two countries is easy.
Duterte hates that. He says he's going to impose visa restrictions on Americans because Filipinos need visas when traveling to America but Americans don't when travelling to the Philippines.
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