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Old July 11th, 2018, 07:04 PM   #11

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You just described practically the whole world and how each country see's itself. The flip-side is they then see other countries and their neighbors as ''weak'' and/or effeminate (are we still allowed to use that word?). Remember in World War II the Germans and the Japanese saw the Americans in their propaganda allegedly as weak and ''too cosmopolitan'' and with very little stomach for real soldiering, while obviously the Americans did not see themselves as such. It might be more an issue of rural populations seeing themselves as ''rugged'' ''tough men'' (cowboys, mountain men, frontier/rural life) that appears in a lot of national characterizations of said people, several countries in the region for example have an equivalent to the cowboy (Vaquero/Gaucho/Huaso etc).
Oddly enough though, in some cases you get the opposite. You have the city slickers/cultured types who see themselves as ''cultured'' and ''civilized'' and in some countries/civilizations it becomes a national idealization of being superior to the more ''brutish'' people on the other side of the border, somewhat like the ancient Greeks viewed barbarians, as rugged brutes who couldn't comprehend their vastly superior culture.
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Old July 11th, 2018, 07:05 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Chlodio View Post
Oh, it's definitely a story we Americans tell ourselves to make us feel better about our place in the world. We don't have thousands of years of heritage or culture so we have to invent something else about ourselves.
If you feel so insecure you need to do that, that's up to you. But I don't think you should be speaking for all Americans. I don't know many who are suffering the same levels of low-self esteem you appear to be suffering over this supposed lack of American heritage and culture.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 05:35 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Tokugawa Ieyasu View Post
Well, actually, I don't get the point what the thread host tried to express.
Did he refer to the "American-style adventurism" in the Western frontier in the 19th century ? What kind of conclusion he wanted to show us ? This culture was incorporated into the Americanism ?
You are not understanding the O.P. because you are actually doing some thinking. The O.P. is a mishmash of nonsense.

For instance, he thinks that American business competitiveness is somehow related to the old west. He doesn't seem to be very knowledgeable of the history of capitalism in Europe and the eastern United States long before Americans went west. I guess were supposed to think that Bill Gates, an American, is tough in a way Englishman Richard Branson, an Englishman is not because England didn't have an old west. Or maybe the traders on the New York Stock Exchange are more competitive than those on the London, Tokyo, and Hong Kong exchanges.

At least I guess that's what he is trying to say. Who can tell for sure?
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Old July 12th, 2018, 05:56 AM   #14
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This seems a bit stereotypical (and Americans typically don't wear this aspect of American culture on their sleeve); but I do think it is part of United States history and culture.



Americans seem to have this "tough fantasy" about being a bunch of tough ranchers, athletes, work-aholics, businessmen and so on, who are tougher than this or that group of panzies.



It seems like I am grossly exaggerrating; despite that fact that it is in a way obvious (as in, nobody in Texas goes around bragging about how tough they are, and no beaureaucrat is going to bother you. Yet, there does seem to be an orderly and "tough" aspect of Texas culture.)



To me, this is almost an aspect of the United States being a business run society (that pretends it's a bit of a frontier society; a bunch of hard-nosed businessmen who think that they are tougher than the Beaureacrats)


Any thoughts on this?

do you think a lawyer from Texas would win a fight with a lawyer from, say, Toronto, or have an above-average chance of doing so, due to his state of origin?

how about, say, a schoolteacher, from Abilene duking it out with a schoolteacher from, say, Berlin?
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Old July 12th, 2018, 06:09 AM   #15

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What about Austin, Texas?
Its the city that tries to out Berkeley Berkeley.
https://www.kvue.com/article/news/lo.../269-572802116
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Old July 12th, 2018, 06:11 AM   #16

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Originally Posted by Arminius View Post
do you think a lawyer from Texas would win a fight with a lawyer from, say, Toronto, or have an above-average chance of doing so, due to his state of origin?

how about, say, a schoolteacher, from Abilene duking it out with a schoolteacher from, say, Berlin?

As I am a lawyer from Texas, no, I would not win a fight with a lawyer from Ontario. On the other hand, he wouldn't win the gunfight with the lawyer from Texas that occurred before the fistfight.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 06:13 AM   #17
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As I am a lawyer from Texas, no, I would not win a fight with a lawyer from Ontario. On the other hand, he wouldn't win the gunfight with the lawyer from Texas that occurred before the fistfight.
ah, see, that famous Texan toughness
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Old July 12th, 2018, 06:15 AM   #18

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ah, see, that famous Texan toughness
Thats the opposite. We're too weak to get into a fight, so we just shoot you instead. We're just a bunch of woosies.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 10:09 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Piccolo View Post
To me, this is almost an aspect of the United States being a business run society (that pretends it's a bit of a frontier society; a bunch of hard-nosed businessmen who think that they are tougher than the Beaureacrats)

Any thoughts on this?
I think British society is historically as business run as American society so that alone would make toughness as not a unique trait of American culture. In the end I believe there are "tough" traits in all societies, it's just how some individuals of any nation and culture naturally act. Regarding the U.S. alone, my categorization of national stereotypes about American tough guys: work-aholic (today), soldiers, Clint Eastwood, John Milius's characters, Chuck Norris.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 10:33 AM   #20

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Originally Posted by Jax Historian View Post
If you feel so insecure you need to do that, that's up to you. But I don't think you should be speaking for all Americans. I don't know many who are suffering the same levels of low-self esteem you appear to be suffering over this supposed lack of American heritage and culture.
To quote Oscar Wilde, "the youth of America is their oldest tradition. It has been going on now for three hundred years."
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