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Old July 10th, 2018, 02:23 PM   #21

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Originally Posted by Tercios Espanoles View Post
Bragg being honoured in North Carolina is as unsurprising as finding the van Rensselaer name attached to something every fifty feet in New York.

Braxton Bragg retired from the Army in 1856 and went to live in Lafourche Parish, Louisiana where he operated a Sugar Plantation. There are some not so well known Forts/Camps as well. The Louisiana National Guard operates Camp Beauregard near Alexandria, Louisiana. Most of the Army's Armor Divisions were raised and trained there. There were small Army Posts scattered all over the US before WWII. There was even Fort a in New York City!


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Old July 10th, 2018, 02:33 PM   #22

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Actually the sentiment doesn't surprise me. The Northern man here is indulging the South in its foolishness, but is not angry or even annoyed that the South is perpetuating and enshrining its Confederate heroes/traitors (depending on ones point of view). I suspect this was a typical Northern attitude toward the South in the early 20th century when Confederate monuments were going up and army bases were being named.

I used to work at a Casino near Kinder, LA. We got lots of "Snow Birds" from the North during the Winter. The attitude was alive and well from the Snow Birds during the first decade of the 21st Century. If I visit another part of the country, I never tell my hosts what is wrong about the area and how they should change things to make it like where I am from. This is extremely rude behavior.



I don't mind people not liking the South, but you should in turn go back to where you are from.


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Old July 10th, 2018, 02:57 PM   #23

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I used to work at a Casino near Kinder, LA. We got lots of "Snow Birds" from the North during the Winter. The attitude was alive and well from the Snow Birds during the first decade of the 21st Century. If I visit another part of the country, I never tell my hosts what is wrong about the area and how they should change things to make it like where I am from. This is extremely rude behavior.



I don't mind people not liking the South, but you should in turn go back to where you are from.


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The South was not a monolithic entity where every Southerner supported the Confederacy. Some states, such as Mississippi and South Carolina, had more slaves than free. Were the slaves not Southerners? Surely the great majority were not sad to see the Confederacy go. Significant numbers of black Southerners served in Union regiments. Some Confederate states also had significant white Unionist minorities, like Tennessee, North Carolina, and Virginia. Tennessee alone had somewhere in the neighborhood of 42,000 men who served in Union regiments. North Carolina, 25,000. Were they not Southerners? Kentucky and West Virginia, both culturally southern states that remained in the Union, sent over 100,000 combined to war in support of Union. Were they not Southerners?

That people object to some Confederate monuments or U.S. Army bases being named for people who fought against their country and the U.S. Army to preserve slavery, does not mean they "do not like the South."

Last edited by Scaeva; July 10th, 2018 at 03:07 PM.
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Old July 10th, 2018, 03:11 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Pruitt View Post
I used to work at a Casino near Kinder, LA. We got lots of "Snow Birds" from the North during the Winter. The attitude was alive and well from the Snow Birds during the first decade of the 21st Century. If I visit another part of the country, I never tell my hosts what is wrong about the area and how they should change things to make it like where I am from. This is extremely rude behavior.

I don't mind people not liking the South, but you should in turn go back to where you are from.

Pruitt

Pruitt, your beef is not with me but rather with the man quoted by Scaeva. To me he does not come across as angry or annoyed at the South but rather as bemused. He thought the South was foolish but was not so worked up about as to take any action himself. Rather, he was willing to wait for the South to realize its folly. Only time will tell if this Civil War veteran was correct in his predictions or perceptions. Your enemy is the now dead GAR veteran, not me.

Last edited by Chlodio; July 10th, 2018 at 03:13 PM.
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Old July 10th, 2018, 04:58 PM   #25

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Any possibility you could put an intelligible thought together? I can't decipher gobblity-gook.

Merely making the point that changing names, pulling down statues etc, because the people represented held views that are no longer fashionable in this modern PC era is a denial of history and a sign of the insecurity of those making the changes. Orwell had much to say about this in his seminal novel 1984...have you heard of it?
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Old July 10th, 2018, 05:50 PM   #26
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Merely making the point that changing names, pulling down statues etc, because the people represented held views that are no longer fashionable in this modern PC era is a denial of history and a sign of the insecurity of those making the changes.
Well, to me the ones who are whining about the statues being taken down seem like the insecure ones to me.

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Orwell had much to say about this in his seminal novel 1984...have you heard of it?
Yes, I read 1984 decades ago. Have you heard of the Wizard of Oz by Frank Baum?
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Old July 10th, 2018, 06:19 PM   #27

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Since most war is waged for economic reasons at the behest of the wealthy, I'm largely agnostic to cries of "treason" or whatever. Smedley Butler was partially correct: war is a rackett.

But I'm not cynical, either. Military and wartime service can be good for a young man. Caesar's troops in Gaul formed brotherhoods while fighting for nakedly imperial reasons.

All that being the case, at least name your bases after people who didn't suck at war. Let people in whatever town/state decide if they want to keep or dismantle a memorial I'm unlikely to ever visit.
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Old July 11th, 2018, 04:22 AM   #28

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All that being the case, at least name your bases after people who didn't suck at war.

On that specific point:

https://www.stripes.com/news/us/opin...rates-1.354614


"Two Confederate commanders whom history has judged among the best — Gen. James Longstreet and Gen. Joseph E. Johnston — have no bases named after them.

After the war, Longstreet, whom Lee called “my old war horse,” joined the Republican Party, endorsed Ulysses S. Grant for president and, in 1874, fought for the Reconstruction government against thousands of “White League” insurrectionists in a battle in New Orleans that was not put down until federal troops were called in.

Johnston, whose military prowess was criticized by Confederate officials but praised by his Union opponents, died of pneumonia contracted after serving as a pallbearer at the funeral of the Union general to whom he surrendered, William Tecumseh Sherman."
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Old July 11th, 2018, 04:48 AM   #29
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Joseph Johnston wasn't that good. All he did was retreat. He didn't destroy his own army like Hood though.
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Old July 11th, 2018, 05:44 AM   #30

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All that being the case, at least name your bases after people who didn't suck at war.
I think this falls under the truism that no matter how incompetent, unlikeable, or just plain "bad" one is, one always has supporters. Or, as one friend put it, "Even Hitler had a girlfriend."
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