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Old July 12th, 2018, 07:20 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Old Reb View Post
Both Ft. Davis and the Davis Mountain chain of West Texas are named after Jefferson Davis, the CSA president.
Another place named after another traitorous scumbag. Davis was a particularly bad person, but he had lost of company.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 07:24 AM   #52

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Originally Posted by aggienation View Post
CSA were Americans too. Confederate States of America.
It’s generally understood that the term American refers to citizens of and people loyal to the United States.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 07:30 AM   #53
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Merely making the point that changing names, pulling down statues etc, because the people represented held views that are no longer fashionable in this modern PC era is a denial of history and a sign of the insecurity of those making the changes. Orwell had much to say about this in his seminal novel 1984...have you heard of it?
Erection of those statues, I would suggest, is a sign of the insecurity of the Southerners who were rightfully crushed by the Union. Many, if not most, of those statues were erected during the early 20th century and were intended to be a slap in the face of the blacks in the south to remind them of what “their place” was in southern society during a time when the Ku Klux Klan was resurgent. They were erected for the most part in public parks (bought and paid for by public money). I don’t mind if they are taken down and removed to museums so the south’s misguided perceptions about itself were preserved. But on publicly-owned land? No way Jose.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 07:36 AM   #54
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CSA were Americans too. Confederate States of America.
No, they weren’t “Americans”. They were confederates and their “job” was to kill American soldiers.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 07:37 AM   #55

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Originally Posted by royal744 View Post
Erection of those statues, I would suggest, is a sign of the insecurity of the Southerners who were rightfully crushed by the Union. Many, if not most, of those statues were erected during the early 20th century and were intended to be a slap in the face of the blacks in the south to remind them of what “their place” was in southern society during a time when the Ku Klux Klan was resurgent. They were erected for the most part in public parks (bought and paid for by public money). I don’t mind if they are taken down and removed to museums so the south’s misguided perceptions about itself were preserved. But on publicly-owned land? No way Jose.
So how do you feel about the statue of Oliver Cromwell, Regicide, at Westminster?
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Old July 12th, 2018, 07:41 AM   #56
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No, they weren’t “Americans”. They were confederates and their “job” was to kill American soldiers.
Confederate States of America

The side you're referring to weren't called Americans, they were called the USA, Union, Yankees, Blue Bellies, Blue Coats.

If you're going to be filled with hate over a historical event that ended 150 years ago, at least know your history.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 09:54 AM   #57
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Good work there, Dentatus.

Buchanan was one of the 50 Lend-lease destroyers, became HMS Campbeltown and was used as a demolition ship in the St Nazaire Raid.

Buchanan/Campbeltown at St Nazaire Dock just before she blew up.

Click the image to open in full size.
Took a number of German officers with her I understand, as well as the gates to the only Atlantic Coast dry dock that could hold the Tirpitz.

Oh, I missed USS Ingraham DD111, and possibly some others. Of course most of these men served with distinction in the US Navy prior to 1860.

Oddly, I also forgot USS Robert E Lee (SSBN601) USS Stonewall Jackson (SSBN634) and USS Dixon (AS37).

Last edited by Dentatus; July 12th, 2018 at 10:35 AM.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 10:26 AM   #58

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No, they weren’t “Americans”. They were confederates and their “job” was to kill American soldiers.
I'd say they were Americans but only because the Confederacy lost. The civil war was after all an attempt to secede from the United States and found a new country.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 11:28 AM   #59

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I’m certainly opposed to naming any military bases after Confederate Generals - too late for that. They were traitors to this country pure and simple. They led armed forces whose writ was to kill American soldiers. They are scum as far as I’m concerned.
That's too bad, because people who were actually fighting/killing Confederate soldiers in battle held them in higher esteem. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, by all accounts a "left wing college professor" of his day ordered a salute of Confederate Soldiers at Appomattox. Chamberlain was a man who insisted others not call black people "darkies." And that was one of the most mild racist nicknames of the era.

Your position is not without merit, but most of those American soldiers who were potential victims of Confederate killing, or witnessed their friends/men under their command die to Confederate bullets did not have such hate or avarice. I think if the actual Union soldiers, particularly ones like Chamberlain, can forgive in victory, so can the rest of us.

Last edited by frogsofwar; July 12th, 2018 at 11:32 AM.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 11:38 AM   #60

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I'd say they were Americans but only because the Confederacy lost. The civil war was after all an attempt to secede from the United States and found a new country.
They were Americans again after the war. Not only was amnesty granted, but Lee himself was instrumental in getting Confederates to accept defeat.

I can only imagine if Great Briton was still carrying the torch 150 years after the American Revolution. Thankfully, they did not, and there is a statue of George Washington in Trafalgar Square. A statue of one of the most successfull traitors in British history stands in the shrine of Britain's greatest naval hero.

Like Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson, George Washington was a white, slave-owning racist from Virginia who betrayed his country. Except Lee was probably a better general than Washington, and Jackson certainly was.

Last edited by frogsofwar; July 12th, 2018 at 11:55 AM.
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