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Old May 27th, 2010, 01:11 AM   #131

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Re: Was the American Revolution Justified?


In a word: yes.
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Old May 27th, 2010, 04:16 AM   #132

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Re: Was the American Revolution Justified?


should we really be fretting over what happend?
it allready happend, we just have to learn from it.
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Old May 27th, 2010, 04:21 AM   #133
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Re: Was the American Revolution Justified?


This entire website is putatively devoted to fretting over what happened.
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Old May 27th, 2010, 06:23 AM   #134

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Re: Was the American Revolution Justified?


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Originally Posted by gaius valerius View Post
We've already had some very convincing arguments against the whole "no taxation without representation" slur though...
Surely better than "for God and Country".
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Old May 27th, 2010, 03:40 PM   #135

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Re: Was the American Revolution Justified?


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I thought the whole point of having freedoms is that they never needed to be fought and won, but they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights when they are created.
Yes, governments can defend human rights or violate them.

They might add legal rights(health care, education, whatever all else), but those can be taken away without violating human rights as such.
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Old May 27th, 2010, 04:12 PM   #136

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Re: Was the American Revolution Justified?


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Originally Posted by scholar View Post
I thought the whole point of having freedoms is that they never needed to be fought and won, but they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights when they are created.
Only if you believe in natural rights.
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Old May 28th, 2010, 02:24 AM   #137

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Re: Was the American Revolution Justified?


I found something of interest related to the Loyalist perspective discussed earlier; it's some Loyalist propaganda. Propaganda is probably one of the best ways to understand the views of the opposing sides.

This shows a customs official being tarred and feathered under a Liberty Tree (used by mobs to hang Loyalists) by jeering revolutionaries, during the Boston Tea Party:

Click the image to open in full size.

This one depicts the arrest of Benjamin Franklin's son, William, who was a Loyalist:

Click the image to open in full size.

These is a satirical view of how the revolutionaries were perceived:

Click the image to open in full size.

The captain is saying:

"I swear its plaguey cold, Jonathan; I don't think they'll attack us, now you (know you?)"

The men are saying things like, "I don't feel cold to-day", "I fear they'll shoot again", "I fear our General is still a labourer in vain", etc.

Of particular note is the clergyman. He holds a flag with a Liberty Tree and hangman's scaffolds, and is saying "Tis Old Oliver's Cause, No Monarchy No Laws", a reference to Oliver Cromwell and the Loyalist perception that the revolutionaries were inspired by religious fanaticism.
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Old May 28th, 2010, 07:28 AM   #138
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Re: Was the American Revolution Justified?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgewaters View Post
I found something of interest related to the Loyalist perspective discussed earlier; it's some Loyalist propaganda. Propaganda is probably one of the best ways to understand the views of the opposing sides.
Thanks for this extraordinary material, EW.

One can only wonder how the Revolutionaries would have been perceived by posterity (let say us) had the British Crown eventually won...
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Old May 28th, 2010, 08:07 AM   #139

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Re: Was the American Revolution Justified?


If you're interested in the Loyalist POV here is an interesting site:

The Loyalist American Regiment
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Old May 28th, 2010, 08:14 AM   #140

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Re: Was the American Revolution Justified?


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Thanks for this extraordinary material, EW.

One can only wonder how the Revolutionaries would have been perceived by posterity (let say us) had the British Crown eventually won...
That's a really good question. The Loyalists were in the thick of things and obviously had strong feelings against the revolutionaries, but opinion back in London was more complex. The handling of the problem was certainly criticized (even by those who didn't support the revolution). Here's a British pamphlet criticizing the handling of the affairs in Boston:

Click the image to open in full size.

The British are blockading the city, and the colonists are symoblically imprisoned in a cage suspended from the Liberty Tree. The men in the boat represent the efforts of the other colonies to assist, they are feeding the prisoners fish with poles. One of the prisoners has a note which reads, "They cried unto the Lord in their Trouble & he saved tham out of their Distress. Psalm cvii 13."

Psalm 107:13 goes on like so:

13 Then they cried to the LORD in their trouble,
and he saved them from their distress.

14 He brought them out of darkness and the deepest gloom
and broke away their chains.

15 Let them give thanks to the LORD for his unfailing love
and his wonderful deeds for men,

16 for he breaks down gates of bronze
and cuts through bars of iron.
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