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Old September 27th, 2010, 01:21 PM   #41

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Re: American Symbol of Eagle


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Originally Posted by Urbs Aedificator View Post
The American eagle, while based on the American bald eagle is inspired by an eagle which was the symbol for the Roman standard.

The American founders were all students of the history of Rome and the study of Latin authors. After Caesar they read Cicero, Ovid, Virgil, and Sullust. Symbols from the Roman republic were adopted because of the reverence they felt for their ancient model. The fasces that were carried by the lictors which accompanied the Roman Consuls as the traveled the streets of Rome, were carried with the axe removed, just as fasces without axes decorate both sides of the US House Speaker's chair. The American Eagle symbol looks to its right wing and right talon which holds an olive branch, and away from the left wing and talon which hold 13-arrows symbolic of the united capacity of the (original) 13 states to make war as a united force. It's not an accident, I posit, that the Latin phrase "E pluribus unum" contains 13 letters.

The "Great Seal of the United States of America" contains several other Latin phrases on the reverse which reflect on the respect the founders had for Rome; they are "Annuit coeptis" (he approves of the undertaking), taken from Virgil's Aeneid, in which Ascanius asks for and receives the support of Jupiter), "Novus ordo seclorum" ("a new order of the ages") taken from Virgil, The Fourth Eclogue, and on the base of the pyramid are, no surprise here, the Roman numerals "MDCCLXXVI" for the year of the declaration of independence from the King, "1776"
Oh, yes, undoubtedly.

And, Rome has chosen the Eagle because... of its majestic ability to be borne on air-currents?

Last edited by vera; September 27th, 2010 at 04:14 PM.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 02:03 PM   #42

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Re: American Symbol of Eagle


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Oh, yes, undoubtedly.

And, Rome has chosen the Eagle because... of its majestic ability to be born on air-currents?
Encyclopaedia Britannica:
"According to Pliny, it was Gaius Marius who, in his second consulship ordained that the Roman legions should only have the eagle for their standard; 'for before that time the eagle marched foremost with four others -- wolves, minotaurs, horses, and bears -- each one in its proper order. Not many years passed before the eagle alone began to be advanced in battle, and the rest were left behind in the camp. But Marius rejected them altogether, and since this it is observed that scarcely is there a camp of a legion wintered at any time without having a pair of eagles' "

It is thought that the eagle standard of a Roman legion was supposed to have been emblematic of the dominion of Rome over the world.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 02:18 PM   #43

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Re: American Symbol of Eagle


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Originally Posted by Urbs Aedificator View Post
Encyclopaedia Britannica:
"According to Pliny, it was Gaius Marius who, in his second consulship ordained that the Roman legions should only have the eagle for their standard; 'for before that time the eagle marched foremost with four others -- wolves, minotaurs, horses, and bears -- each one in its proper order. Not many years passed before the eagle alone began to be advanced in battle, and the rest were left behind in the camp. But Marius rejected them altogether, and since this it is observed that scarcely is there a camp of a legion wintered at any time without having a pair of eagles' "

It is thought that the eagle standard of a Roman legion was supposed to have been emblematic of the dominion of Rome over the world.
Thank you. That is indeed what I am saying. Dominion. And, incidentally, all these animals listed were/are considered baddest, meanest, strongest etc.

So, placing some philosophical value on top we come right back to -

The eagle was chosen because it is the biggest, baddest, meanest, scariest dominating species among his type of animal. To symbolize dominion.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 03:43 PM   #44

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Re: American Symbol of Eagle


No one liked my llama joke? Iz a sad llama.

lol

Anywho, yeah, that's why the Eagle's so popular with mascots. Vera's got it spot on.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 04:12 PM   #45

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Re: American Symbol of Eagle


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No one liked my llama joke? Iz a sad llama.

lol

Anywho, yeah, that's why the Eagle's so popular with mascots. Vera's got it spot on.
Ah, poor llama.

BTW, in Hebrew "lama" means "why", "what for". So llama jokes are always rather difficult for me.
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Old October 6th, 2010, 05:59 AM   #46

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Re: American Symbol of Eagle


Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbs Aedificator View Post
The American eagle, while based on the American bald eagle is inspired by an eagle which was the symbol for the Roman standard.

The American founders were all students of the history of Rome and the study of Latin authors. After Caesar they read Cicero, Ovid, Virgil, and Sullust. Symbols from the Roman republic were adopted because of the reverence they felt for their ancient model. The fasces that were carried by the lictors which accompanied the Roman Consuls as the traveled the streets of Rome, were carried with the axe removed, just as fasces without axes decorate both sides of the US House Speaker's chair. The American Eagle symbol looks to its right wing and right talon which holds an olive branch, and away from the left wing and talon which hold 13-arrows symbolic of the united capacity of the (original) 13 states to make war as a united force. It's not an accident, I posit, that the Latin phrase "E pluribus unum" contains 13 letters.

The "Great Seal of the United States of America" contains several other Latin phrases on the reverse which reflect on the respect the founders had for Rome; they are "Annuit coeptis" (he approves of the undertaking), taken from Virgil's Aeneid, in which Ascanius asks for and receives the support of Jupiter), "Novus ordo seclorum" ("a new order of the ages") taken from Virgil, The Fourth Eclogue, and on the base of the pyramid are, no surprise here, the Roman numerals "MDCCLXXVI" for the year of the declaration of independence from the King, "1776"
i agree with this one. thanks for the info
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Old October 21st, 2010, 01:43 AM   #47
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Re: American Symbol of Eagle


The symbol was chosen as it always is from masonry. If you look the symbols all over the world are influenced by the masonic order. The eagle goes back to rome and further back originating from the phoenix.

Another good example of roman symbols is the fasces symbol that used to be on our dime. That still hangs on two huge banners on both sides of the podium in the house of representatives I believe is the room. And I think there's a pair crossed on the bottom of the US Congress Seal.

Everything from the design of the district of columbia's street patterns and buildings to the statue of liberty is freemasonry symbolism.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 03:53 PM   #48
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Absolutely. That's why I said it was interesting the Russia's symbol is an eagle, too. As a matter of fact, eagles are used in national emblems rather widely (for the very same reasons):
USA
Russia
Austria...
(Sorry for bumping up an old thread)

As was mentioned, the founders of the US had a general infatuation with Rome, and it influenced a lot of the decisions made by the founding fathers, everything from the name of the Capitol Hill (from the Capitoline Hill), to the Senate, to even the Tiber Creek in DC, originally known as Goose Creek but renamed after the Tiber River in Rome. It is virtually impossible to walk through the historic district of Washington DC and not feel like you're in very conscious effort to recreate ancient Rome.

Besides the US, Rome has influenced the decision of some of those countries listed above to use the Eagle as their symbol as well.

During ~11th century, the Eastern Roman Empire, now known frequently as the Byzantime Empire but what was, literally, a continuation of the Eastern Half of the Roman Empire that never fell to germanic tribes, made the double headed eagle their national symbol. This was both due to the Eagle's historical prominence in Roman military customs (and was still the standard for the Roman Legions in the eastern empire until the military was re-organized) and due to local customs in what is now present day Turkey, where a mythical double headed eagle was prominent.

When the Eastern Roman Empire fell in the 15th century, the head of the Russian State (Ivan III) married the niece of the last Eastern Roman Empire, and tried to style themselves as the direct continuation of the Eastern Roman State, calling themselves tsars after Caesar and adopting the Eastern Roman coat of arms.

Austria has explicitly stated that their national symbol is based off of the Roman Aquila (Roman Standard) in Addendum 202 of the 1919 Law on the State Arms and the State Seal of the Republic of German Austria. Before that, the Holy Roman Empire and Habsburg Empire had used double eagles, and they themselves had strong ties to the Roman Empire. The Pope would frequently promote the heads of the Holy Roman Empire to "Roman Emperor of the West", starting with Charlemagne in 800, less than half a century after the Eastern Roman Emperor lost all jurisdiction over the mainland of Italy.

All roads sort of lead to Rome in this case.
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