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Old October 17th, 2011, 05:07 PM   #1

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Help with Old Spanish...again


I found in the Coronado story that the Spaniards under Coronado named a town Tusayan. And I think that this is an old Spanish word that means moqui. Now, what exactly did that mean in the context of Coronados day? Was it something to do with moqui stones?

These old Spanish terms confuse me. Help is much appreciated.
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Old October 18th, 2011, 05:53 AM   #2

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Stanbery View Post
I found in the Coronado story that the Spaniards under Coronado named a town Tusayan. And I think that this is an old Spanish word that means moqui. Now, what exactly did that mean in the context of Coronados day? Was it something to do with moqui stones?

These old Spanish terms confuse me. Help is much appreciated.
Ehh... no, at least I don't think so. It seems the Spaniards were looking for the Seven Cities of Gold or The Seven Cities of Cibola , when they finally conquered one of the native cities and didn't find any gold they were pointed by the natives to the north, where existed the seven cities of Tusayan
When they reached Tusayan there were the Moquis inhabiting the zone (Arizona?)... no gold no nothing
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Old October 18th, 2011, 06:21 AM   #3

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But, what does the word Tusayan mean? It isnt a Native word, or tribe name, is it? Rather, an old Spanish word with a lost meaning? At least, that is what I have been stumbling over. But, Im not sure if Im understanding this correctly. So, you think the word Tusayan was a tribal name of the Natives, of Native origin, and not a Spanish word?

Im so lost on this one! All help and input is appreciated. Thanks.

Last edited by Richard Stanbery; October 18th, 2011 at 06:28 AM.
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Old October 18th, 2011, 06:36 AM   #4

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Tusayán doesn't sound Spanish at all (it sounds native to me), for what I gathered it seems the Spaniards named the region that way by the name given to them by other natives, that is all.
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Old October 18th, 2011, 07:27 AM   #5

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Tusayán doesn't sound Spanish at all (it sounds native to me), for what I gathered it seems the Spaniards named the region that way by the name given to them by other natives, that is all.
That is correct. It is in the extreme northeast corner of Arizona. The region was inhabited by Hopis and Puebloans in the 16th century.

I believe the word Tusayan is from the Shoshonean language.
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Old October 18th, 2011, 07:51 AM   #6

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Tusayan is now way a Spanish word.


Coronado heared on a land named Tusayan in the north, this seen to be a native name and certainlly it sound native american.


And certainlly authors goes for that, though contradictory hypothesis exist:

P.221 Rio Del Norte: People of Upper Rio ... - Carroll L. Riley - Google Libros

"Only the indirect evidence of the name Tusayán, Coronado's word for the Hopi country, suggests Athabascan connection at that early time. Tusayan sounds like a Navajo word (see chapter 8), although not too much reliance should be placed on one isolated name."


P. 239 American anthropology, 1888-1920 ... - Frederica de Laguna, A. Irving Hallowell - Google Libros

"1. Tucano, Colorado's letter to Mendoza... The name of this provice shares with those of many ancient Mexican towns the termination an, which is foreign to Hopi linguistics as a locative ending. Mr Valentini suggests in a letter that Tusayan is corrupt Nahuatl, from Tochli, rabbit; an, place of, "rabbit place", an apt name for the country. It is known that Nahuatl-speaking natives acompanied Coronado. Did he use their name of the province? The suggested derivation of Tusayan from Navaho tongue is weak, and there is no evidence that Coronado knew this Athapascan people. I find no proof that he heard the Hopi called Tusayan by the Zuńi."
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Old October 18th, 2011, 08:37 AM   #7

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Thanks Frank, nice finds.

It does seem more likely, as you say, that it is not originally a Navajo word.

Mmany native languages of the West (except for Navajo, which is an anomaly and belongs to the Dene/Athabaskan family), belong to the meta-family (or superfamily?) of Uto-Aztecan languages including Shoshone, Hopi (northern) and Nahuatl (southern).

The northern Uto-Aztecan languages seem to be related to those like Nahuatl mostly because of the presence of words influenced by southern languages of Mexico.

It very well could be a Nahuatl-influenced Hopi word (place name). Does anyone know its meaning?
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Old October 18th, 2011, 09:21 AM   #8

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I found a reference to the place name Tusayan, meaning in Apache: "place of isolated buttes." The Apache languages are Athabaskan, hmmmm (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, by John Selbie 1999).
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Old October 18th, 2011, 10:07 AM   #9

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Hell! I had disfavoured Athabascan family after reading your previous post , now we have three hypothesis:

1. Northern Uto-Aztecan
2. Southern Uto-Aztecan
3. Athabaskan
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Old October 18th, 2011, 12:41 PM   #10

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Ah, now the scholars are at work, and giving me some sensible and much appreciated insight. And I thank every one who posted here.

You know, I think the Coronado expedition is tragically, and undeservedly dismissed, because of the city of gold myth. But I think it really should be taken as a very important historical document, once the myth of cibola is laid aside.

And, I am sort of grasping at these hidden nuances, such as the meaning of the word we have talked about. And that is perhaps, because, I get the feeling from reading the account of the Coronado expedition, that he knew he was not the first European to visit some of these places. And not just that there had been some survivors froma previous expedition (estaban). But, that perhaps some unauthorized and unrecorded expeditions had been in there before him.

And that is a juicy thought...unrecorded and unauthorized expeditions during the time of the conquest. I am all interested in learning more along this.
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