Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > American History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

American History American History Forum - United States, Canada, Mexico, Central and South America


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 5th, 2012, 07:36 PM   #51

Viperlord's Avatar
Scalawag
 
Joined: Aug 2010
From: VA
Posts: 6,461
Blog Entries: 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjadams View Post
Didn't Sherman just issue that field order to get rid of the blacks who
were tagging along within his units (old, women and the young), and slowing his march?
Didn't he just want to rid himself of that impediment?
Not at all. You're conflating an infamous incident on the March to the Sea with his January 1865 order, which reached all the way down to Florida, not an immediate military concern of his. With supply lines and the link-up to the navy, Sherman hardly needed to be too concerned about being weighed down by civilians. He took logical steps to oversee the practical administration of this order too. Sherman was no advocate of racial equality, for sure, but giving the land of the slaveholders who had caused the war to loyal blacks was a logical step.
Viperlord is online now  
Remove Ads
Old December 5th, 2012, 07:36 PM   #52

tjadams's Avatar
Epicurean
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Texas
Posts: 25,369
Blog Entries: 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viperlord View Post
Spending money was surely preferable to risking the war by alienating the border states early-on. And at the time, Lincoln thought the slave-owners would accept compensated emancipation.
And where did Lincoln think the money would come from at that time?
tjadams is offline  
Old December 5th, 2012, 07:39 PM   #53

tjadams's Avatar
Epicurean
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Texas
Posts: 25,369
Blog Entries: 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viperlord View Post
Not at all. You're conflating an infamous incident on the March to the Sea with his January 1865 order, .
No, I'm not conflating anything. I asked a simple direct question with no
other meaning. But are you talking about Sherman and Ebenezer Creek?
tjadams is offline  
Old December 5th, 2012, 07:40 PM   #54

Viperlord's Avatar
Scalawag
 
Joined: Aug 2010
From: VA
Posts: 6,461
Blog Entries: 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjadams
And of course Johnson revoked Sherman's field order. Field Orders are not the official
policy of the president.
The official policy of the president was to leave freedmen and loyalists in the South to rot under the persecution and political terrorism that eventually succeeded in halting the progress made by the abolitionists and bringing about the black codes of the South.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tjadams View Post
And where did Lincoln think the money would come from at that time?
Why is this in any way relevant to the topic? Your passive-aggressive goalpost shifting has begun, as always, to bore me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjadams
No, I'm not conflating anything. I asked a simple direct question with no
other meaning. But are you talking about Sherman and Ebenezer Creek
Oh look, tilting at the goalposts again. Yes, you are conflating; you have not provided any factual basis to suggest that Sherman's motivation was "getting rid of the blacks."
Viperlord is online now  
Old December 5th, 2012, 07:55 PM   #55

tjadams's Avatar
Epicurean
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Texas
Posts: 25,369
Blog Entries: 6

If you cannot score points from a game with rough rules, then you
might need to lower your goalpost and shorten your playing field.
If my questions bore you, or you're unable to answer them in a civil tone,
ignore them.
tjadams is offline  
Old December 5th, 2012, 08:04 PM   #56
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,451

I don't think compensated emancipation would be possible even before the war or early in the war, because the value of all the slaves was too much. No one could raise the money.
betgo is online now  
Old December 5th, 2012, 08:07 PM   #57

Viperlord's Avatar
Scalawag
 
Joined: Aug 2010
From: VA
Posts: 6,461
Blog Entries: 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjadams View Post
If you cannot score points from a game with rough rules, then you
might need to lower your goalpost and shorten your playing field.
If my questions bore you, or you're unable to answer them in a civil tone,
ignore them.
Oh but I did answer your questions. It's you who moves the goalposts steadily downfield rather than actually address the answers.
Viperlord is online now  
Old December 5th, 2012, 08:25 PM   #58

tjadams's Avatar
Epicurean
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Texas
Posts: 25,369
Blog Entries: 6

I've made the decision to apologize for any offenses and disappointment
I've caused you Viper. This way you and I can live in peace and enjoy the day as
a blessing God has prepared for us both.
"Good sense makes a man restrain his anger, and it is his glory to overlook a transgression or an offense.”
(Proverbs 19:11)
tjadams is offline  
Old December 5th, 2012, 11:47 PM   #59

Ancientgeezer's Avatar
Revisionist
 
Joined: Nov 2011
From: The Dustbin, formerly, Garden of England
Posts: 5,034

The British government voted 20 million in 1833 for compensation for West Indian slaves alone, although those at Cape Colony were freed first. The compensation paid varied from 5/head to 40/head (then around $100-$800). I note that farmhands sold at Richmond in the 1850s for $600 and some women (job uncertain) for $1000.
Ancientgeezer is online now  
Old December 6th, 2012, 03:37 AM   #60

Rongo's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Dec 2011
From: Ohio
Posts: 5,685

Quote:
Originally Posted by betgo View Post
I don't think compensated emancipation would be possible even before the war or early in the war, because the value of all the slaves was too much. No one could raise the money.
Certainly not at full value. I believe I remember seeing that Lincoln proposed $400 per slave, which would probably have been below their going value. The proposal was made to representatives from the border states, which only had a small fraction of the slaves overall. The border state representatives refused the offer. If they had accepted it, it still would have had to be approved by Congress, and the source of funding would have to be determined at that point in time.
Rongo is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > American History

Tags
african, americans, free


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A textbook says that thousands of African Americans fought for the South during the Civil War laketahoejwb American History 33 March 9th, 2013 06:19 AM
Henry Ford (1863 1947) Thessalonian American History 6 August 28th, 2011 04:47 PM
Why do few African Americans attend civil war events? CIowa General History 50 April 16th, 2011 03:17 PM
20th century free states, free cities and plebiscites larkin European History 0 October 24th, 2009 09:38 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.