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Old November 12th, 2012, 09:07 AM   #121

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I apologize for my strong stance. I'm not trying to offend anyone. I don't mean any slight to the confederate soldiers many of whom were either conscripted or really did believe they were fighting for freedom. But I'm sure it's obvious that I don't like Lee. I'm trying to keep my opinion out of this. But the facts are what they are. I'm participating in this because I don't want to say anything about Lee that isn't true. I'm here to find out what is true and what isn't.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 09:11 AM   #122
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I apologize for my strong stance. I'm not trying to offend anyone. I don't mean any slight to the confederate soldiers many of whom were either conscripted or really did believe they were fighting for freedom. But I'm sure it's obvious that I don't like Lee. I'm trying to keep my opinion out of this. But the facts are what they are. I'm participating in this because I don't want to say anything about Lee that isn't true. I'm here to find out what is true and what isn't.
You probably created the best thread of the day, in that we started arguing our positions. I honestly don't remember whether you started this one or the other one, but I found it compelling that we were arguing basically the same thing on 2 threads at the same time. I would like to give my thanks to all veterans of America, whether they were USA or CSA. We all have a proud history in my opinion.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 09:18 AM   #123

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That was a different time in the U.S. and we take our opinions based on what happened to our individual families during this disaster in American history. My family is of the opinion that had Scott not neglected his responsibilities to Virginia perhaps the outcome would have been different.

It is my opinion that the South was only seeking equal footing as an outcome of the war and it is truly my desire to go back and see the war end as a draw. I believe that if it were a draw we would see a much different and much better America than we have today.

The one thing I do know is that the War of Northern Aggression was not based on Slavery as much as it was based on the North wishing to subjugate the South.
I can't argue against opinion. But you keep acting like all of Virginia wanted to seceded. There were plenty of loyal citizens. So you think Scott should have had loyalty to the confederacy, not Virginia. I don't know how he has any ties to the CSA?

The south started the war. So it wasn't based on anything the Union did or wanted. It was based on the south's desire to maintain and spread slavery and their aggression towards the Union. The Union answered their call.
The Union had no desire to subjugate the south. The south wanted a strong federal government and got salty when they lost control of it. They could no long spread slavery or force northern states to accept their laws. New York could make laws that forbade the southern Whites from bringing their slaves to the state with them when they visited. The north wasn't going to be bullied into returning runaway slaves. The south couldn't handle the lose of power over the north. So, it was quite the other way around.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 09:19 AM   #124

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I think that if we wish to lay blame for the problems the United States has suffered since the War between the States we need but lay the mantle at the feet of the Republican Party.

At Appomattox Lee and grant parted as vanquished and victor with a country to rebuild but the politicians took over and the country failed to be rebuilt for more than 100 years.

Yes we suffered through and were victorious in 5 or 6 wars but the internal workings of the country did not start to come together until the 1980's.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 09:19 AM   #125

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You probably created the best thread of the day, in that we started arguing our positions. I honestly don't remember whether you started this one or the other one, but I found it compelling that we were arguing basically the same thing on 2 threads at the same time. I would like to give my thanks to all veterans of America, whether they were USA or CSA. We all have a proud history in my opinion.
I wish there was a like button on this forum. I am thankful for the vets too. And I think southerners can be proud of their vets from the ACW. They were brave men. The sacrificed a lot. I do take issue with the leadership though.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 09:21 AM   #126

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I think that if we wish to lay blame for the problems the United States has suffered since the War between the States we need but lay the mantle at the feet of the Republican Party.

At Appomattox Lee and grant parted as vanquished and victor with a country to rebuild but the politicians took over and the country failed to be rebuilt for more than 100 years.

Yes we suffered through and were victorious in 5 or 6 wars but the internal workings of the country did not start to come together until the 1980's.
I'm laying at the feet of the Democrats....and the klan. Good men like Longstreet(and a great general to boot) got on board with the Republicans.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 09:26 AM   #127

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I can't argue against opinion. But you keep acting like all of Virginia wanted to seceded. There were plenty of loyal citizens. So you think Scott should have had loyalty to the confederacy, not Virginia. I don't know how he has any ties to the CSA?

The south started the war. So it wasn't based on anything the Union did or wanted. It was based on the south's desire to maintain and spread slavery and their aggression towards the Union. The Union answered their call.
The Union had no desire to subjugate the south. The south wanted a strong federal government and got salty when they lost control of it. They could no long spread slavery or force northern states to accept their laws. New York could make laws that forbade the southern Whites from bringing their slaves to the state with them when they visited. The north wasn't going to be bullied into returning runaway slaves. The south couldn't handle the lose of power over the north. So, it was quite the other way around.
You say the South started the war but you give no concrete reasons how they started the war other than to mention things that other states objected to. You mention New York which was probably the most racist of all the northern states. The northern states didn't want slavery in their midst but they also didn't want blacks, or Irish for that matter, but they didn't want anyone else to have them. What were the Southerners to do? Slavery was on the steep decline at the start of the northern hostilities. Had the north not instigated the war slavery would have found its demise in a period shorter than the radical republicans keep it going.

The north may have won the war but was it really a victory or was it just a change of subjugation?
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Old November 12th, 2012, 09:30 AM   #128

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I'm laying at the feet of the Democrats....and the klan. Good men like Longstreet(and a great general to boot) got on board with the Republicans.
The radical republicans were the most evil contingency in the history of our country. How can you even give credence to an Organization that set back the development of the American nation by 100 years?
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Old November 12th, 2012, 09:33 AM   #129

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You say the South started the war but you give no concrete reasons how they started the war other than to mention things that other states objected to. You mention New York which was probably the most racist of all the northern states. The northern states didn't want slavery in their midst but they also didn't want blacks, or Irish for that matter, but they didn't want anyone else to have them. What were the Southerners to do? Slavery was on the steep decline at the start of the northern hostilities. Had the north not instigated the war slavery would have found its demise in a period shorter than the radical republicans keep it going.

The north may have won the war but was it really a victory or was it just a change of subjugation?
I don't care about racism. People have the freedom to be racist. They don't have freedom to keep people as chattel. You are making ad hominem attacks. The north "did bad things" so the south is free to do them as well. The people who didn't want the Irish there were Irish(nativist protestants). What they didn't want was Catholics, but the Union government allowed them anyway. So, unlike the south, the government wasn't perpetuating an evil
Slavery was not on the decline. One secession statement said it was the "greatest material interest in the world." The south had $3 BILLION in human property. How is that a decline?
The north did not instigate the war. The south attacked the north REPEATEDLY. The south stole northern property. If someone punches me in the face and takes my wallet, I'm going to punch them back and retrieve my wallet. Then I'm going to call the police and have them taken to jail. the Union did the same.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 09:36 AM   #130

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The radical republicans were the most evil contingency in the history of our country. How can you even give credence to an Organization that set back the development of the American nation by 100 years?
Freeing the slaves and saving the south from becoming another Haiti is a setback? I've got news for you, under the democrats, the south was breeding itself out of existence, the literacy among Whites was abysmal. Poor Whites were wedged out of jobs and had little means of climbing the economic ladder. Migration from south to north was 3x that of the reverse. This is what you call development?
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