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Old November 12th, 2012, 09:41 AM   #141

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Exactly what neo-Union web sites have you been visiting?
haha. fair enough. No Civil War sites but other blogs that happen to mention Lee. I have see comments that reference these things. I don't want to spread them if they aren't true.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 10:33 AM   #142

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I'm still waiting for those sources showing Sheridan's men were killing civilians.
The defeated don't often get much of a say in history. That may well soon change. General Sherman and Sheridan: The War Criminals.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 10:43 AM   #143

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The defeated don't often get much of a say in history. That may well soon change. General Sherman and Sheridan: The War Criminals.
I stopped reading the article when it quoted Sherman as saying his purpose was the "extermination, not of soldiers alone but of the people" of the South. If anyone can provide the primary source for that quotation, in context, I'll start reading again. (Of course I'll probably be stopped again for the same reason at the very next line, where it says Sherman ordered his troops to "shoot civilians at random")
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Old November 12th, 2012, 10:59 AM   #144

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I stopped reading the article when it quoted Sherman as saying his purpose was the "extermination, not of soldiers alone but of the people" of the South. If anyone can provide the primary source for that quotation, in context, I'll start reading again. (Of course I'll probably be stopped again for the same reason at the very next line, where it says Sherman ordered his troops to "shoot civilians at random")
I understand that sometimes it isn't pleasant reading of our history Rongo, but as Wenge says, that the memory of Sheridan is hated for "The Burning" in the Shenandoah just as much as Sherman is hated for his "March to the Sea" and by the descendant populations to this very day and the question needs to be asked is why. Why do these modern people who love the US like the rest of us, curse the Yankee memory still to this very day, but more specifically Sheridan and Sherman? I think this might provide a piece to the jigsaw puzzle, yes?
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Old November 12th, 2012, 11:11 AM   #145

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I understand that sometimes it isn't pleasant reading of our history Rongo, but as Wenge says, that the memory of Sheridan is hated for "The Burning" in the Shenandoah just as much as Sherman is hated for his "March to the Sea" and by the descendant populations to this very day and the question needs to be asked is why. Why do these modern people who love the US like the rest of us, curse the Yankee memory still to this very day, but more specifically Sheridan and Sherman? I think this might provide a piece to the jigsaw puzzle, yes?
Well, I'm sure we're all familiar with the concept of people exaggerating the actions of people they disagree with. But this is a HISTORY forum, and our job here is to dig beneath the rumors and find the raw facts. All I'm asking for is a primary source.

Regarding Sheridan, I agree he was a bum (for lack of being able to use the word I'd prefer to use). But even his actions are exaggerated. I suggest reading this book:

The Burning : Sheridan's Devastation of the Shenandoah Valley: John L. Heatwole: 9781883522186: Amazon.com: Books
The Burning : Sheridan's Devastation of the Shenandoah Valley: John L. Heatwole: 9781883522186: Amazon.com: Books


The author is a resident of the Valley, as were his ancestors going all the way back to colonial times. His resume is impressive and his research is exhaustive.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 11:16 AM   #146

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Well, I'm sure we're all familiar with the concept of people exaggerating the actions of people they disagree with. But this is a HISTORY forum, and our job here is to dig beneath the rumors and find the raw facts. All I'm asking for is a primary source.

Regarding Sheridan, I agree he was a bum (for lack of being able to use the word I'd prefer to use). But even his actions are exaggerated. I suggest reading this book:

The Burning : Sheridan's Devastation of the Shenandoah Valley: John L. Heatwole: 9781883522186: Amazon.com: Books

The author is a resident of the Valley, as were his ancestors going all the way back to colonial times. His resume is impressive and his research is exhaustive.
I've read that book, and I agree entirely.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 11:21 AM   #147

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The defeated don't often get much of a say in history. That may well soon change. General Sherman and Sheridan: The War Criminals.
So where are the primary sources on Sherman and Sheridan's men actually raping and killing on a mass scale? Sherman's letter, regardless of the context, is mere words; it doesn't show he was actually exterminating anyone. According to historian Mark Grimsley, civilian deaths during the March to the Sea were quite low; mainly they occurred when Union foraging parties were bushwhacked. I'm no fan of Philip Sheridan, but he engaged in a entirely practical and justified campaign of enemy property and resource destruction; I'm still not seeing the sources on his troops murdering anyone.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 11:24 AM   #148

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Well, I'm sure we're all familiar with the concept of people exaggerating the actions of people they disagree with. But this is a HISTORY forum, and our job here is to dig beneath the rumors and find the raw facts. All I'm asking for is a primary source.
I have no bone in the argument, but i am intrigued. Of course I'm looking into it and i'll be happy to comply with the request, if & as soon as i can dig anything up. I'll share it here.

Quote:
Regarding Sheridan, I agree he was a bum. But even his actions are exaggerated. I suggest reading this book:

The Burning : Sheridan's Devastation of the Shenandoah Valley: John L. Heatwole: 9781883522186: Amazon.com: Books

The author is a resident of the Valley, as were his ancestors going all the way back to colonial times. His resume is impressive and his research is exhaustive.
Is the book free? Otherwise...


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Old November 12th, 2012, 11:34 AM   #149

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The defeated don't often get much of a say in history. That may well soon change. General Sherman and Sheridan: The War Criminals.
I respectfully disagree. From my vantage point history can certainly be written by the losers. For instance, the south. The south, by far, has the better PR and is winning the history war. I was once a big time neo confederate because of all the myths put out there as truth. In the course of arguing and defending things I was told(and are conventional wisdom) I found real history. Another example would be the "stealing" of the southwest from Mexico. Most people believe that claptrap too. The losers sometimes sit around and stew over the great "injustice" and invent stories about how they were wronged. Winners move on.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 11:34 AM   #150

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The radical republicans were the most evil contingency in the history of our country. How can you even give credence to an Organization that set back the development of the American nation by 100 years?
So then, what's your position on the South's utterly barbaric treatment of freedmen after the withdrawal of federal troops in 1876? Or before that, for that matter? White Southerners engaged in terrorism through groups such as the KKK, and managed to successfully resist black equality through these methods. As U.S. Grant later noted, it was a pity that the federal troops did not remain in the South to enforce the rights of freedmen. There were excesses in Reconstruction, for sure, but by and large, the so-called carpetbagger governments improved education and infrastructure in the South, and governors such as Adelbert Ames championed black equality and resisted the terrorism of white supremacists. Southern Democrats countered Ames by suppressing the black vote in order to get their own candidates elected. It seems to me that the Southerners were committing far more abuses during Reconstruction than they suffered. For all their flaws, the Radical Republicans may have had the best understanding of the defeated Confederate mindset.
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