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Old November 12th, 2012, 01:28 PM   #161

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I have no problem with any of that except the KKK bit. How anyone can support those people is beyond me. I have no problem with racists(however that is even defined). Rednecks aren't limited to the south. And I've got no problem with cowboys(save for the footballl team) or Texans.
Good for you. The thing is, i am none of those things except a proud Texan.

Well, the neanderthal part has been widely debated amongst my family and friends ever since the day i was born.

What was the original question about Robert Lee?
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Old November 12th, 2012, 01:31 PM   #162

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To a great extent the South did win the "PR" campaign with regard to the American Civil War for many years.

For many years American views of "Reconstruction" and the war itself were based on the viewpoint of "Gone With the Wind," which glorified the antebellum South and villified the "Yankees" that won the war. Even if you don't wish to believe that the book's "talking points" weren't incorperated into American history books, the book "Gone with the Wind" was extremely popular and was widely published. People reading that book would surely be influenced by it on some level or another. People may not always notice it, as "Gone With the Wind" was told as a "love story."

And this sort of viewpoint continued on. 1915 a silent movie by D.W. Griffith titled "Birth of a Nation" was made. In it, blacks were depicted as unintelligent, cruelly lustful and agressive toward white women, and the Klu Klux Klan was fully justified to murder and lynch African Americans. The movie was heavily criticized by the NAACP and some others for its racist tones, but it was a commercial success and won the support of Woodrow Wilson, then in the White House.

And in the book "Lies My Teacher Told Me," James Loewen further points out further Southern triumphs in the "PR campaign" when the Daughters of the Confederacy successfully got the state of Wisconsin to put up a memorial to Confederate War dead. Wisconsin did not send any regiments to fight for the Confederacy and in fact fought hard to crush it, yet they would put up a monument honoring those that killed Wisconsin citizens in the American Civil War.
Didn't know that about Wisconsin. Man, that is super annoying.

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well, the unprovoked attack on Sumter, for one. it's my observation that the South (in general, with plenty of individual exceptions) has a long history of bitching and moaning whenever they don't get their way: refusing to sign the Declaration if it spoke against slavery; the Dred Scott decision and the fugitive slave laws let slavers do whatever the **** they wanted throughout the Union; the caning of Sumner was more or less unprovoked and, when bystanders tried to help the poor man, another Southerner threatened to shoot them; Bleeding Kansas; and perhaps the most egregious of recent examples, state-sanctioned racism and segregation following the end of the Civil War, and most visibly during the Civil Rights Movement
I want to add to this that when John Brown attacked the south, the Union sent in the army, captured him, and hanged him. The Union would not allow any aggression towards the south.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 01:35 PM   #163

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Good for you. The thing is, i am none of those things except a proud Texan.

Well, the neanderthal part has been widely debated amongst my family and friends ever since the day i was born.

What was the original question about Robert Lee?
Parts of Texas wanted to remain loyal to the Union. Texas Unionists were butchered. I have nothing against Texans, cowboys or rednecks. In fact, I love Texans- you all are the lot with tomato based bbq right?

I have no idea what the OP is, but my original question was if Lee had a hunt list and if he used snipers at the read of his troops.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 01:35 PM   #164

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Well, the neanderthal part has been widely debated amongst my family and friends ever since the day i was born.

What was the original question about Robert Lee?
Was he a neanderthal?

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Old November 12th, 2012, 01:41 PM   #165

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Did Lee actually believe in slavery being legal or did he sign with the South because he wanted to be loyal to Virginia? Also was he has good as a general has history has portrayed him to be?
1.) I believe he thought it was above his pay grade to offer a historically substantial opinion worthy of quoting verbatim.

2.) He went with his loyalty to his native state

3.) Depends all on who you ask. All i know is what i have read and that the soldiers under his commands there were lots of sick, mainly starving and literally naked walking stick figures resembling caricatures of death, lacking in all sorts of supplies and medical attention, low on ammunition, hounded until they were surrounded and were still willing enough to fight on for the man who led had him down the road to Appomattox.

Or if you ask a Yankee, they were beaten fair and square.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 01:46 PM   #166

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1.) I believe he thought it was above his pay grade to offer a historically substantial opinion worthy of quoting verbatim.

2.) He went with his loyalty to his native state

3.) Depends all on who you ask. All i know is what i have read and that the soldiers under his commands there were lots of sick, mainly starving and literally naked walking stick figures resembling caricatures of death, lacking in all sorts of supplies and medical attention, low on ammunition, hounded until they were surrounded and were still willing enough to fight on for the man who led had him down the road to Appomattox.

Or if you ask a Yankee, they were beaten fair and square.
No, he went with the politicians of his native state. All of Virginia wasn't behind secession. He also put said politicians above family.

How was it not a fair fight? Picking a fight with a bigger man and losing means you don't get to complain afterwards that he was bigger and that wasn't fair. Sherman gave fair warning that the south was unprepared and that they would lose

You people of the South don't know what you are doing. This country will be drenched in blood, and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war; you don't know what you're talking about. War is a terrible thing! You mistake, too, the people of the North. They are a peaceable people but an earnest people, and they will fight, too. They are not going to let this country be destroyed without a mighty effort to save it… Besides, where are your men and appliances of war to contend against them? The North can make a steam engine, locomotive, or railway car; hardly a yard of cloth or pair of shoes can you make. You are rushing into war with one of the most powerful, ingeniously mechanical, and determined people on Earth — right at your doors. You are bound to fail. Only in your spirit and determination are you prepared for war. In all else you are totally unprepared, with a bad cause to start with. At first you will make headway, but as your limited resources begin to fail, shut out from the markets of Europe as you will be, your cause will begin to wane. If your people will but stop and think, they must see in the end that you will surely fail.

Last edited by Yankee; November 12th, 2012 at 01:57 PM.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 02:06 PM   #167

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Parts of Texas wanted to remain loyal to the Union. Texas Unionists were butchered. I have nothing against Texans, cowboys or rednecks. In fact, I love Texans- you all are the lot with tomato based bbq right?
No. It's based on "cough-cough... wheeze... gasp...holy mother of.... gasp, that's hot!" Barbeque.

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I have no idea what the OP is, but my original question was if Lee had a hunt list and if he used snipers at the read of his troops.
Sorry, i thought you were the threads originator. Hit list? Not that i am aware of. Did he use snipers to read to his troops? No, i think they could read just fine on their own (I am sorry! Couldn't resist. It's good to know that i'm not the only typo prone person here) As far as i am aware he employed his sharpshooters in a role better understood as either shock troops or in a standard sort of way for time as skirmishers.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 02:15 PM   #168

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No, he went with the politicians of his native state. All of Virginia wasn't behind secession. He also put said politicians above family.
That's a little odd. Based on what. I'm not following you here. Military Officers back then didn't care much for politicians over their families and homes.

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How was it not a fair fight? Picking a fight with a bigger man and losing means you don't get to complain afterwards that he was bigger and that wasn't fair.
I ask myself the same thing. Thankfully the Northerners had industry and tech to even the odds.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 02:19 PM   #169

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Hmmm... Hey! This looks like my family!

You'll be hearing from my lawyer soon. As soon as i can find and afford one.
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Old November 12th, 2012, 02:21 PM   #170
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I think he is loyal to his state, virginia.... he will not fight against it..

he did not think slavery was right but accepted them...

I am not sure if this letter was true.....



Robert E. Lee letter dated December 27, 1856:

I was much pleased the with President's message. His views of the systematic and progressive efforts of certain people at the North to interfere with and change the domestic institutions of the South are truthfully and faithfully expressed. The consequences of their plans and purposes are also clearly set forth. These people must be aware that their object is both unlawful and foreign to them and to their duty, and that this institution, for which they are irresponsible and non-accountable, can only be changed by them through the agency of a civil and servile war. There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild and melting influences of Christianity than from the storm and tempest of fiery controversy. This influence, though slow, is sure. The doctrines and miracles of our Saviour have required nearly two thousand years to convert but a small portion of the human race, and even among Christian nations what gross errors still exist! While we see the course of the final abolition of human slavery is still onward, and give it the aid of our prayers, let us leave the progress as well as the results in the hands of Him who, chooses to work by slow influences, and with whom a thousand years are but as a single day. Although the abolitionist must know this, must know that he has neither the right not the power of operating, except by moral means; that to benefit the slave he must not excite angry feelings in the master; that, although he may not approve the mode by which Providence accomplishes its purpose, the results will be the same; and that the reason he gives for interference in matters he has no concern with, holds good for every kind of interference with our neighbor, -still, I fear he will persevere in his evil course. . . . Is it not strange that the descendants of those Pilgrim Fathers who crossed the Atlantic to preserve their own freedom have always proved the most intolerant of the spiritual liberty of others?
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