Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > American History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

American History American History Forum - United States, Canada, Mexico, Central and South America


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 13th, 2012, 10:53 AM   #221

Yankee's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
From: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 567

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera tigris altaica View Post
Might this be what is wrong with our education system? Everything knowledge wise is @$$ backwards.
I think it's human nature. But I'm pleasantly surprised at how reasonable everyone is on this forum
Yankee is offline  
Remove Ads
Old November 13th, 2012, 11:01 AM   #222

Bishop's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
From: City of Angels
Posts: 719

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee View Post
I've been on a James Cagney movie kick(watched Fighting 69th on Vet's Day). I love his acting. He wasn't a good guy. So I have to laugh that this was sad about him. He catted around on his wife and was a fall down drunk. I don't think Lee did those things but it makes me wonder when all this praise is heaped on someone.
Absolutely correct about Cagney--which speaks to my point--in his prime he was arguably the most intense and outright engrossing screen actor America has ever had. If you take away the bad parts of the man you change the man himself, who he is, both good and bad. He was what he seemed to be, like General Lee and all of us, just shades of grey, little else..
...

Btw I always found interesting that Lee showed up to the surrender at Appomattox courthouse wearing his finest full-dress uniform, while Grant, afraid of being spotted by a sniper, wore the uniform of a common soldier.
Bishop is online now  
Old November 13th, 2012, 11:03 AM   #223

diddyriddick's Avatar
Forum Curmudgeon
 
Joined: May 2009
From: A tiny hamlet in the Carolina Sandhills
Posts: 13,871

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee View Post
I'm trying to find about the real history. If that happens to be a discredit to him, take it up with Lee. And if you don't like the thread, then don't read it.
At the risk of being redundant, you may believe this, but nobody else does. You argue that the "made-up" stories of Lee are bad history. You are right. But setting out to discredit a historical figure is every bit as bad as trying to prop him up.

Peter Davis provides us the privilege of posting here on historum, you no less than me. As a moderator I believe in that privilege. But as a user and history buff, I'll be damned if I'll allow such blatant agenda to go unchallenged. So keep posting your "history," and I'll continue to challenge it.

Have a nice day.
diddyriddick is online now  
Old November 13th, 2012, 11:12 AM   #224

Yankee's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
From: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 567

Quote:
Originally Posted by diddyriddick View Post
At the risk of being redundant, you may believe this, but nobody else does. You argue that the "made-up" stories of Lee are bad history. You are right. But setting out to discredit a historical figure is every bit as bad as trying to prop him up.

Peter Davis provides us the privilege of posting here on historum, you no less than me. As a moderator I believe in that privilege. But as a user and history buff, I'll be damned if I'll allow such blatant agenda to go unchallenged. So keep posting your "history," and I'll continue to challenge it.

Have a nice day.
It isn't as bad as propping him up because I'm trying to do so with facts.
I've been quite upfront about my feelings. I'm not trying to pull a fast one on anybody. There are a few(very few) bad things about Lee out there. i'm posting here because I want to find out if they are true so I don't repeat anything about him that isn't true. I'm not going to apologize for that. nor am I going to discuss it any further.
If I post somthing untrue then please challenge it. But aside from that you are challeging my intentions. That is an incredible waste of time on your part. Can we please get back to history and away from your feelings and your speaking on behalf of the entire thread community? Thanks
Yankee is offline  
Old November 13th, 2012, 11:16 AM   #225

Panthera tigris altaica's Avatar
In latrine Rex
 
Joined: Aug 2011
From: Texas
Posts: 5,722
Blog Entries: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee View Post
True, I am interested in exposing the real Lee. But only what is real. Unlike the people who have made him a mini god.
I think you might be arguing against an ideal rather than a historical person. If we are going to search for "real history", then i think it is best found in between the established views.
Panthera tigris altaica is online now  
Old November 13th, 2012, 11:18 AM   #226

Yankee's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
From: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 567

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera tigris altaica View Post
I think you might be arguing against an ideal rather than a historical person. If we are going to search for "real history", then i think it is best found in between the established views.
Possibly. But there seems to be no middle of the road with him. I heard "Reading the Man" was supposed to be objective and historical, but then I read it was a hatchet job.
Yankee is offline  
Old November 13th, 2012, 11:23 AM   #227

Panthera tigris altaica's Avatar
In latrine Rex
 
Joined: Aug 2011
From: Texas
Posts: 5,722
Blog Entries: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee View Post
Possibly. But there seems to be no middle of the road with him. I heard "Reading the Man" was supposed to be objective and historical, but then I read it was a hatchet job.
There is a middle road for a historian, amateur or professional. Know the facts to the best of your ability and stay out of the way of the idealists arguing their opinions.
Panthera tigris altaica is online now  
Old November 13th, 2012, 11:44 AM   #228

Rongo's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Dec 2011
From: Ohio
Posts: 5,685

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee View Post
Possibly. But there seems to be no middle of the road with him.
With all due respect, I don't think you can find a middle ground with this attitude:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee View Post
His home was wrong! This "my country, right or wrong" is nonsense. If he really loved Virginia he wouldn't have betrayed neighbors and posterity in such a fashion.
"Right" and "wrong" are not black and white. Everyone has their own concept of what is right and what is wrong. Whether you think it's nonsense or not, Lee sincerely believed he was right, as did hundreds of thousands of Confederates who fought beside him. But if you start with the attitude that he was flat out "wrong", then you're predisposed to look for the negative.

Why not instead try to look at it from his perspective, and try to understand why he thought it was "right"? It's possible to do that without turning into a neoConfederate, you know.
Rongo is offline  
Old November 13th, 2012, 11:57 AM   #229

Yankee's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
From: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 567

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rongo View Post
With all due respect, I don't think you can find a middle ground with this attitude:



"Right" and "wrong" are not black and white. Everyone has their own concept of what is right and what is wrong. Whether you think it's nonsense or not, Lee sincerely believed he was right, as did hundreds of thousands of Confederates who fought beside him. But if you start with the attitude that he was flat out "wrong", then you're predisposed to look for the negative.

Why not instead try to look at it from his perspective, and try to understand why he thought it was "right"? It's possible to do that without turning into a neoConfederate, you know.
By middle of the road, I was assumintg we mean an unbiased bio on Lee. That can exist while I still believe he was not a good man. But it's true, I am not going to change my mind about him : no offense to anyone here
Yankee is offline  
Old November 13th, 2012, 12:10 PM   #230

Panthera tigris altaica's Avatar
In latrine Rex
 
Joined: Aug 2011
From: Texas
Posts: 5,722
Blog Entries: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee View Post
By middle of the road, I was assumintg we mean an unbiased bio on Lee. That can exist while I still believe he was not a good man. But it's true, I am not going to change my mind about him : no offense to anyone here
From a self admitted neo-confederate to a neo-yankee, huh? Hey i don't care which way your views swing, but i would like to respectfully point out that it does sounds like you might be after all judging the man according to modern day morals rather than looking at the mores that existed during those times, first positively and now negatively. It wasn't so so clear cut as we like think our times are, which of course, they are not.

But anyways, no i am not offended. Most of us are trying to help further an understanding rather than correct a belief.
Panthera tigris altaica is online now  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > American History

Tags
lee, robert


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Robert E. Lee WHAT IF mister Speculative History 8 May 10th, 2009 05:17 AM
Robert E. Lee kahn American History 33 March 20th, 2009 07:40 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.