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Old November 14th, 2012, 06:14 AM   #271

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Originally Posted by Unrevised View Post
Manvotional: Robert E. Lee’s Chivalry | The Art of Manliness

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Could this be our same "Yankee" trolling on another site? I would think so !! Boys we are having a battle of wits with an unarmed man. I think I am through with this thread as far as "Yankee" goes. Rongo you can continue the debate if you want but this guy is a tool. I"m out.
And here we have it, the magic personal attack. Not only am I not the Yankee on that site, I'm not a guy. I'm simply trying to have a dialogue, not a debate, on what is and isn't true about Lee. If you want to participate, please do. If you don't, nobody is making you.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 06:23 AM   #272

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My guess as you didn't even read the above. Ignorance is bliss.
I don't need to read any further than this:
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The Southern States now stand exactly in the same position toward the Northern States that our ancestors in the colonies did toward Great Britain. The Northern States, having the majority in Congress, claim the same power of omnipotence in legislation as the British Parliament. "The general welfare" is the only limit to the legislation of either; and the majority in Congress, as in the British Parliament, are the sole judges of the expediency of the legislation this "general welfare" requires. Thus the Government of the United States has become a consolidated Government, and the people of the Southern States are compelled to meet the very despotism their fathers threw off in the Revolution of 1776.


Secession was nothing like the Revolution. The colonists were being denied representation and real rights. The south wasn't. They had representation. Nobody was telling them which religion they could and couldn't practice, what trees they could cut from their property, subsidiarity was not being ignored, etc.

I can also posted bias sources that favor the Union. Would you accept them? I doubt it.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 06:27 AM   #273

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Fuller quote here.

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Originally Posted by Robert Patrick, 4th Louisiana
There are reports floating that we are about to make a proposition to France and England that if they will recognize us that we will emancipate the slaves within twenty-five years, and that this thing is now before Congress. For my part I am in favor of it, and so is every man I have heard speak about it. If we continue to lose ground as we have for the last twelve months, we will soon be defeated, and then slavery will be gone anyway. I think it is better that we should give up slavery and gain our independence. There is no doubt in my opinion that we are gone unless something is done for our welfare and very quick.
This was written on January 18th, 1865. Whatever the hopes of Patrick and his fellows in the 4th Louisiana, the Confederate Congress had not even considered such a deal, let alone offered it.

And Patrick had written earlier in the war "it begets a sad regret that we are not engaged in a holier cause."
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Old November 14th, 2012, 07:13 AM   #274

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Originally Posted by Unrevised View Post
Manvotional: Robert E. Lee’s Chivalry | The Art of Manliness

scroll to comments...

Could this be our same "Yankee" trolling on another site? I would think so !! Boys we are having a battle of wits with an unarmed man. I think I am through with this thread as far as "Yankee" goes. Rongo you can continue the debate if you want but this guy is a tool. I"m out.
This is unacceptable. Please do not bring drama to Historum from another site, and do not insult your fellow members. Attack the argument, not the man.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 07:15 AM   #275

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Can we please get back to history and away from your feelings and your speaking on behalf of the entire thread community? Thanks
We can't get back to what never was in the first place. You don't get it. This is not about my feelings. This is not about me speaking for the entire community. In fact, this is not about me in the slightest. This is about you and your complete lack of historiography. Many of us have tried to point this out to you, but you are so biased and monomaniacal that you refuse to accept it.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 07:31 AM   #276

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Did Lee actually believe in slavery being legal or did he sign with the South because he wanted to be loyal to Virginia? Also was he has good as a general has history has portrayed him to be?
I would say he was being loyal to his state.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 07:36 AM   #277
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This is unacceptable. Please do not bring drama to Historum from another site, and do not insult your fellow members. Attack the argument, not the man.
I apologize. I let my emotions get the best of me. I was not bringing drama. I was merely pointing out a troll.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 07:38 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by Fiver View Post
Fuller quote here.



This was written on January 18th, 1865. Whatever the hopes of Patrick and his fellows in the 4th Louisiana, the Confederate Congress had not even considered such a deal, let alone offered it.

And Patrick had written earlier in the war "it begets a sad regret that we are not engaged in a holier cause."

Congress had considered it.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 08:16 AM   #279

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Originally Posted by Yankee View Post
And here we have it, the magic personal attack. Not only am I not the Yankee on that site, I'm not a guy. I'm simply trying to have a dialogue, not a debate, on what is and isn't true about Lee. If you want to participate, please do. If you don't, nobody is making you.
In my reading of your and others posts, I think the problem some people are having is that you do not have an unbiased stance on Lee. You start with a very biased premise that you do not like Lee and want the "truth" about him; you were told lies about him in the past. Everyone has a bias of sorts; several posters are obvious proUnion and others proSouth. However, to have an open debate, you need to "shelve" your bias and listen to what others say; hopefully with the appropriate sources to back up their stance. And then decided on what you think about Robert E. Lee.

I haven't seen you say anything about the "lies" you were told. What are these lies? Maybe our members can tell you if they are indeed lies or perhaps the truth? You have also not provided many sources of your own.

I've been finding this discussion very interesting. I've always been somewhat disappointed in Lee because as a very loyal American soldier (my father was a Marine and a Texan (not quite as bad as being a Virginian )), he let his personal ties to Virginia disrupt his loyalty to the United States.

I know nothing about the man otherwise. A very informative thread.

Last edited by Clemmie; November 14th, 2012 at 08:27 AM.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 08:38 AM   #280
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In my reading of your and others posts, I think the problem some people are having is that you do not have an unbiased stance on Lee. You start with a very biased premise that you do not like Lee and want the "truth" about him; you were told lies about him in the past. Everyone has a bias of sorts; several posters are obvious proUnion and others proSouth. However, to have an open debate, you need to "shelve" your bias and listen to what others say; hopefully with the appropriate sources to back up their stance. And then decided on what you think about Robert E. Lee.

I haven't seen you say anything about the "lies" you were told. What are these lies? Maybe our members can tell you if they are indeed lies or perhaps the truth? You have also not provided many sources of your own.

I've been finding this discussion very interesting. I've always been somewhat disappointed in Lee because as a very loyal American soldier (my father was a Marine and a Texan (not quite as bad as being a Virginian )), he let his personal ties to Virginia disrupt his loyalty to the United States.

I know nothing about the man otherwise. A very informative thread.
If Alabama were for something that I was against, like say abortion, and seceded from the Union because of it. Then the United States decided it was going to coerce Alabama back into the Union with military force, there is no choice in my opinion. I would not hesitate to defend Alabama to the last. My home is here, my people are here. If I were an officer in the United States military I would resign and go with my state. I would be damned before I commanded troops that would trample the grounds of my childhood home, the land of my ancestors. No way, no how.
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