Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > American History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

American History American History Forum - United States, Canada, Mexico, Central and South America


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 14th, 2012, 06:46 PM   #291
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Jun 2012
From: USA
Posts: 4,015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera tigris altaica View Post
@ Yankee and all involved

Out of respectful curiosity yankee, i must ask, if you want to learn about Robert Lee but refuse to change your mind about him then, to all: what is this part of the discussion about? After all, I believe Yankee's original questions were answered.
You could almost merge this discussion into the thread I started out of frustration of the way we (myself included) debate the Civil War and other topics. Some of us have been discussing how we should argue (discuss) on Historum.
Virgil is offline  
Remove Ads
Old November 14th, 2012, 06:58 PM   #292

Panthera tigris altaica's Avatar
In latrine Rex
 
Joined: Aug 2011
From: Texas
Posts: 5,714
Blog Entries: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
You could almost merge this discussion into the thread I started out of frustration of the way we (myself included) debate the Civil War and other topics. Some of us have been discussing how we should argue (discuss) on Historum.
Well, i am a bit embarrassed. Which thread is that one Virg?
Panthera tigris altaica is offline  
Old November 14th, 2012, 07:04 PM   #293

Rongo's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Dec 2011
From: Ohio
Posts: 5,685

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera tigris altaica View Post
Well, i am a bit embarrassed. Which thread is that one Virg?
This one:
http://www.historum.com/philosophy-p...gue-forum.html
Rongo is offline  
Old November 14th, 2012, 07:17 PM   #294

Panthera tigris altaica's Avatar
In latrine Rex
 
Joined: Aug 2011
From: Texas
Posts: 5,714
Blog Entries: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rongo View Post
Thanks
Panthera tigris altaica is offline  
Old November 14th, 2012, 07:57 PM   #295
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: Alabama
Posts: 279

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiver View Post
Lets take a look at those Arkansas resolutions. What were their complaints?

We, the people of the State of Arkansas, in Convention assembled, in view of the unfortunate and distracted condition of our once happy and prosperous country, and of the alarming dissensions existing between the Northern and Southern sections thereof, and desiring that a fair and equitable adjustment of the same may be made, do hereby declare the following to be just causes of complaint on the part of the people of the Southern States against their brethren of the Northern, or non-slaveholding States:

1. The people of the Northern States have organized a political party, purely sectional in its character, the central and controlling idea of which is hostility to the institution of African slavery, as it exists in the Southern States; and that party has elected a President and Vice President of the United States, pledged to administer the Government upon principles inconsistent with the rights and subversive of the interests of the Southern States.

2. They have denied to the people of the Southern States the right to an equal participation in the benefits of the common Territories of the Union by refusing them the same protection to their slave property therein that is afforded to other property, and by declaring that no more slave States shall be admitted into the Union. They have, by their prominent men and leaders, declared the doctrine of the irrepressible conflict, or the assertion of the principle that the institution of slavery is incompatible with freedom, and that both cannot exist at once; that this continent must be wholly free or wholly slave. They have, in one or more instances, refused to surrender negro thieves to the constitutional demand of the constituted authority of a sovereign State.

3. They have declared that Congress possesses, under the Constitution, and ought to exercise, the power to abolish slavery in the Territories, in the District of Columbia, and in the forts, arsenals and dock-yards of the United States, within the limits of the slaveholding States.

4. They have, in disregard of their constitutional obligations, obstructed the faithful execution of the fugitive slave laws by enactments of their State Legislatures.

5. They have denied the citizens of Southern States the right, of transit through non-slaveholding States with their slaves, and the right to hold them while temporarily sojourning therein.

6. They have degraded American citizens by placing them upon an equality with negroes at the ballot-box.
But thats not why they seceded and it sure ain't why Robert E. Lee joined the South.
Unrevised is offline  
Old November 15th, 2012, 02:38 AM   #296

Yankee's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
From: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 567

Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
You could almost merge this discussion into the thread I started out of frustration of the way we (myself included) debate the Civil War and other topics. Some of us have been discussing how we should argue (discuss) on Historum.
I understand, it's a subject that involves a lot of passion. I can't speak for the OP, but I don't want to argue(yes, I know that I have, but it's not my intent here). All I want to do is find out if these things I heard about Lee are true. If some are questionable and people have to debate the facts, that is fine. My mind is set about the ACW, slavery, and for dislike of Lee. I had read a scathing post about Lee on a few blogs and I wanted to know if the gentleman was making these things up. I see the thing about the snipers is true, but I am still curious about the hunt list and a few other things. I believe the post was mad on the blog I was accused of participating in. I'll see if I can find it and post.
Yankee is offline  
Old November 15th, 2012, 02:43 AM   #297

Yankee's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
From: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 567

Here it is. In bold are the things I am not sure are true. If anyone has any insight on them I'd appreciate it.
Lee kept, in his own handwriting, in his own account book, a “Hunting List” — he wrote HUNTING LIST — of slaves he most wanted to capture, and he paid almost obsessive attention to the young slave girls he wanted to capture.

Lee kept track of what city they might be in, what street, what time of day, and mostly, what shade of skin their infant children had. Lee was very focused on paying to get the mothers back who had very light colored skin, who could pass for white, is what he wrote.

He paid six times the normal bounty to get one 14 year old girl back. When she was caught and the bounty hunter returned her, Lee immediately had her tortured. He screamed at her during her torture.

Then Lee had sold the infant, and rented the mother out.

Lee sold every infant born to the slaves his wife inherited — he could not sell those slaves, by terms of the will, but Lee tried repeatedly to break the will, going into Virginia Courts three times DURING the Civil War. Yes, Lee took time out of the CIvil War to take this matter to Virginia Courts, which turned his request down three times.

BUt while he was doing that, he was also sellilng the infants from these young girls.

Now, why was Lee so obsessed with getting these slave girls back? And who fathered their children? We don’t know who fathered their children, but the girls themselves apparently were light skinned, and their infants even more so.

We know that girls who were light skinned, especially if they had smooth hair and could pass for white, sold for very good sums, and were usually bought for the whore house trade in the deep south, where they were forced to work as sex slaves.

If you think Lee was anything like the Myths the South has pumped up for 150 years, think again. Let’s look at the REAL LEE.

Lee regularly tortured his slaves, and sold their infants. Far from being loved by his slaves, they detested him, and most ran away. They ran away despite the death and torture that were pomised them.

Lee’s slaves said “he was the meanest man I ever saw”.

Lee was also a coward, contrary to the lunatic myth of his bravery. Longstreet reported that Lee always got as far away from battle as he possibly could. Longstreet also wrote about Lee often complaining about his health, and trying to get relieved of command, so he could get out of the Army, the last six months of the war. Davis turned him down.

Lee ran from Richmond on the false rumor of a breach in the line (the line being the massive earth works Lee had over 100,000 slaves build). Lee did not even check if the rumor of a breach was true, he just fled, and ordered the warehouses burned as he dashed off.

The fires Lee ordered set spread, nearly burning the whole town down, because no males were around to put it out. The mayor of RIchmond , 80 years old, had to ride out to the Union troops the next morning under a white flat, and ASK the Union soldiers to come in and help put out the fires.

Lee kept running, despite his aides appeals to stand somewhere and fight. Lee tried to find someplace to surrender for several days, and once he found it, he snuck off from his aides, put on an immaculate uniform, and went to surrernder.

Lee was ordered NOT to surrender by Davis, but Lee did anyway. He would look like the coward he was, if he just surrendered himself personally. So he surrendered his whole army — against orders.

Lee was not only a [explicit] in war, he was a [explicit] around Davis. Lee knew the war was futile and the longer it dragged out, the more men died needlessly. But Lee had often sent his men to die needlessly, he reallyl didn’t care.

For six months AFTER Lee had told others it was futile, he was still sending others to die, and kill, knowing it was over. But he was afraid to confront Davis. Davis was a guy Lee had brownnosed for years, and Lee never once in his life stood up to Davis. Rather than tell Davis the truth, Lee did what Nazi generals did — tell Davis (Hitler) what he wanted to hear.

Lee was simply too afraid to tell Davis the truth, so he kept ordering men to their death. But when Lee personally got near danger, he ran, and then ran off, to surrender.

Lee was nothing like you folks have been told.
Yankee is offline  
Old November 15th, 2012, 02:51 AM   #298

Rongo's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Dec 2011
From: Ohio
Posts: 5,685

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee View Post
Here it is. In bold are the things I am not sure are true. If anyone has any insight on them I'd appreciate it.
Lee kept, in his own handwriting, in his own account book, a “Hunting List” — he wrote HUNTING LIST — of slaves he most wanted to capture, and he paid almost obsessive attention to the young slave girls he wanted to capture.

Lee kept track of what city they might be in, what street, what time of day, and mostly, what shade of skin their infant children had. Lee was very focused on paying to get the mothers back who had very light colored skin, who could pass for white, is what he wrote.

He paid six times the normal bounty to get one 14 year old girl back. When she was caught and the bounty hunter returned her, Lee immediately had her tortured. He screamed at her during her torture.

Then Lee had sold the infant, and rented the mother out.

Lee sold every infant born to the slaves his wife inherited — he could not sell those slaves, by terms of the will, but Lee tried repeatedly to break the will, going into Virginia Courts three times DURING the Civil War. Yes, Lee took time out of the CIvil War to take this matter to Virginia Courts, which turned his request down three times.

BUt while he was doing that, he was also sellilng the infants from these young girls.

Now, why was Lee so obsessed with getting these slave girls back? And who fathered their children? We don’t know who fathered their children, but the girls themselves apparently were light skinned, and their infants even more so.

We know that girls who were light skinned, especially if they had smooth hair and could pass for white, sold for very good sums, and were usually bought for the whore house trade in the deep south, where they were forced to work as sex slaves.

If you think Lee was anything like the Myths the South has pumped up for 150 years, think again. Let’s look at the REAL LEE.

Lee regularly tortured his slaves, and sold their infants. Far from being loved by his slaves, they detested him, and most ran away. They ran away despite the death and torture that were pomised them.

Lee’s slaves said “he was the meanest man I ever saw”.

Lee was also a coward, contrary to the lunatic myth of his bravery. Longstreet reported that Lee always got as far away from battle as he possibly could. Longstreet also wrote about Lee often complaining about his health, and trying to get relieved of command, so he could get out of the Army, the last six months of the war. Davis turned him down.

Lee ran from Richmond on the false rumor of a breach in the line (the line being the massive earth works Lee had over 100,000 slaves build). Lee did not even check if the rumor of a breach was true, he just fled, and ordered the warehouses burned as he dashed off.

The fires Lee ordered set spread, nearly burning the whole town down, because no males were around to put it out. The mayor of RIchmond , 80 years old, had to ride out to the Union troops the next morning under a white flat, and ASK the Union soldiers to come in and help put out the fires.

Lee kept running, despite his aides appeals to stand somewhere and fight. Lee tried to find someplace to surrender for several days, and once he found it, he snuck off from his aides, put on an immaculate uniform, and went to surrernder.

Lee was ordered NOT to surrender by Davis, but Lee did anyway. He would look like the coward he was, if he just surrendered himself personally. So he surrendered his whole army — against orders.

Lee was not only a [explicit] in war, he was a [explicit] around Davis. Lee knew the war was futile and the longer it dragged out, the more men died needlessly. But Lee had often sent his men to die needlessly, he reallyl didn’t care.

For six months AFTER Lee had told others it was futile, he was still sending others to die, and kill, knowing it was over. But he was afraid to confront Davis. Davis was a guy Lee had brownnosed for years, and Lee never once in his life stood up to Davis. Rather than tell Davis the truth, Lee did what Nazi generals did — tell Davis (Hitler) what he wanted to hear.

Lee was simply too afraid to tell Davis the truth, so he kept ordering men to their death. But when Lee personally got near danger, he ran, and then ran off, to surrender.

Lee was nothing like you folks have been told.
Good Lord!! I don't think I've ever seen such a bunch of crap in my life!! This garbage would make Thomas DiLorenzo blush.
Rongo is offline  
Old November 15th, 2012, 02:52 AM   #299

Panthera tigris altaica's Avatar
In latrine Rex
 
Joined: Aug 2011
From: Texas
Posts: 5,714
Blog Entries: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee View Post
Here it is. In bold are the things I am not sure are true. If anyone has any insight on them I'd appreciate it.
Lee kept, in his own handwriting, in his own account book, a “Hunting List” — he wrote HUNTING LIST — of slaves he most wanted to capture, and he paid almost obsessive attention to the young slave girls he wanted to capture.

Lee kept track of what city they might be in, what street, what time of day, and mostly, what shade of skin their infant children had. Lee was very focused on paying to get the mothers back who had very light colored skin, who could pass for white, is what he wrote.

He paid six times the normal bounty to get one 14 year old girl back. When she was caught and the bounty hunter returned her, Lee immediately had her tortured. He screamed at her during her torture.

Then Lee had sold the infant, and rented the mother out.

Lee sold every infant born to the slaves his wife inherited — he could not sell those slaves, by terms of the will, but Lee tried repeatedly to break the will, going into Virginia Courts three times DURING the Civil War. Yes, Lee took time out of the CIvil War to take this matter to Virginia Courts, which turned his request down three times.

BUt while he was doing that, he was also sellilng the infants from these young girls.

Now, why was Lee so obsessed with getting these slave girls back? And who fathered their children? We don’t know who fathered their children, but the girls themselves apparently were light skinned, and their infants even more so.

We know that girls who were light skinned, especially if they had smooth hair and could pass for white, sold for very good sums, and were usually bought for the whore house trade in the deep south, where they were forced to work as sex slaves.

If you think Lee was anything like the Myths the South has pumped up for 150 years, think again. Let’s look at the REAL LEE.

Lee regularly tortured his slaves, and sold their infants. Far from being loved by his slaves, they detested him, and most ran away. They ran away despite the death and torture that were pomised them.

Lee’s slaves said “he was the meanest man I ever saw”.

Lee was also a coward, contrary to the lunatic myth of his bravery. Longstreet reported that Lee always got as far away from battle as he possibly could. Longstreet also wrote about Lee often complaining about his health, and trying to get relieved of command, so he could get out of the Army, the last six months of the war. Davis turned him down.

Lee ran from Richmond on the false rumor of a breach in the line (the line being the massive earth works Lee had over 100,000 slaves build). Lee did not even check if the rumor of a breach was true, he just fled, and ordered the warehouses burned as he dashed off.

The fires Lee ordered set spread, nearly burning the whole town down, because no males were around to put it out. The mayor of RIchmond , 80 years old, had to ride out to the Union troops the next morning under a white flat, and ASK the Union soldiers to come in and help put out the fires.

Lee kept running, despite his aides appeals to stand somewhere and fight. Lee tried to find someplace to surrender for several days, and once he found it, he snuck off from his aides, put on an immaculate uniform, and went to surrernder.

Lee was ordered NOT to surrender by Davis, but Lee did anyway. He would look like the coward he was, if he just surrendered himself personally. So he surrendered his whole army — against orders.

Lee was not only a [explicit] in war, he was a [explicit] around Davis. Lee knew the war was futile and the longer it dragged out, the more men died needlessly. But Lee had often sent his men to die needlessly, he reallyl didn’t care.

For six months AFTER Lee had told others it was futile, he was still sending others to die, and kill, knowing it was over. But he was afraid to confront Davis. Davis was a guy Lee had brownnosed for years, and Lee never once in his life stood up to Davis. Rather than tell Davis the truth, Lee did what Nazi generals did — tell Davis (Hitler) what he wanted to hear.

Lee was simply too afraid to tell Davis the truth, so he kept ordering men to their death. But when Lee personally got near danger, he ran, and then ran off, to surrender.

Lee was nothing like you folks have been told.
Hi Yankee. I would like a link to this site please? Also, I probably missed this earlier, but like i did for Sherman and Sheridan, i will be on the look out for primary sources on the web to back up the allegation.
Panthera tigris altaica is offline  
Old November 15th, 2012, 02:53 AM   #300

Rongo's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Dec 2011
From: Ohio
Posts: 5,685

@Yankee, you've got to ask yourself. If Lee was really such an awful person, why do his detractors have to manufacture garbage like this? Wouldn't it be sufficient just to tell the truth?
Rongo is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > American History

Tags
lee, robert


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Robert E. Lee WHAT IF mister Speculative History 8 May 10th, 2009 05:17 AM
Robert E. Lee kahn American History 33 March 20th, 2009 07:40 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.