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Old November 15th, 2012, 02:54 AM   #301

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Good Lord!! I don't think I've ever seen such a bunch of crap in my life!! This garbage would make Thomas DiLorenzo blush.
Well yeah, but let's examine her linked sources first.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 03:02 AM   #302

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Robert E. Lee: Icon of the South and American Hero

by H. W. Crocker III – American Spectator
Lee, in the mind of some, has become a sectarian hero, when he used to be a national one. Theodore Roosevelt, scion of a Yankee father and a Southern mother, thought Lee was “without any exception the very greatest of all the great captains that the English-speaking peoples have brought forth.” On Lee’s death in 1870, a Northern paper, the New York Herald, editorialized: “Here in the North… we have long ceased to look upon him as the Confederate leader, but have claimed him as one of ourselves; have cherished and felt proud of his military genius as belonging to us; have recounted and recorded his triumphs as our own; have extolled his virtue as reflecting upon us — for Robert Edward Lee was an American, and the great nation which gave him birth would be to-day unworthy of such a son if she regarded him lightly. Never had mother a nobler son…

http://buchanan.org/blog/robert-e-le...rican-hero-649
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Old November 15th, 2012, 03:08 AM   #303

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Originally Posted by Hopeforus View Post
Robert E. Lee: Icon of the South and American Hero

by H. W. Crocker III – American Spectator
Lee, in the mind of some, has become a sectarian hero, when he used to be a national one. Theodore Roosevelt, scion of a Yankee father and a Southern mother, thought Lee was “without any exception the very greatest of all the great captains that the English-speaking peoples have brought forth.” On Lee’s death in 1870, a Northern paper, the New York Herald, editorialized: “Here in the North… we have long ceased to look upon him as the Confederate leader, but have claimed him as one of ourselves; have cherished and felt proud of his military genius as belonging to us; have recounted and recorded his triumphs as our own; have extolled his virtue as reflecting upon us — for Robert Edward Lee was an American, and the great nation which gave him birth would be to-day unworthy of such a son if she regarded him lightly. Never had mother a nobler son…

http://buchanan.org/blog/robert-e-le...rican-hero-649
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Old November 15th, 2012, 03:11 AM   #304

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Here it is. In bold are the things I am not sure are true. If anyone has any insight on them I'd appreciate it.
Lee kept, in his own handwriting, in his own account book, a “Hunting List” — he wrote HUNTING LIST — of slaves he most wanted to capture, and he paid almost obsessive attention to the young slave girls he wanted to capture.

Lee kept track of what city they might be in, what street, what time of day, and mostly, what shade of skin their infant children had. Lee was very focused on paying to get the mothers back who had very light colored skin, who could pass for white, is what he wrote.

He paid six times the normal bounty to get one 14 year old girl back. When she was caught and the bounty hunter returned her, Lee immediately had her tortured. He screamed at her during her torture.

Then Lee had sold the infant, and rented the mother out.

Lee sold every infant born to the slaves his wife inherited — he could not sell those slaves, by terms of the will, but Lee tried repeatedly to break the will, going into Virginia Courts three times DURING the Civil War. Yes, Lee took time out of the CIvil War to take this matter to Virginia Courts, which turned his request down three times.

BUt while he was doing that, he was also sellilng the infants from these young girls.

Now, why was Lee so obsessed with getting these slave girls back? And who fathered their children? We don’t know who fathered their children, but the girls themselves apparently were light skinned, and their infants even more so.

We know that girls who were light skinned, especially if they had smooth hair and could pass for white, sold for very good sums, and were usually bought for the whore house trade in the deep south, where they were forced to work as sex slaves.

If you think Lee was anything like the Myths the South has pumped up for 150 years, think again. Let’s look at the REAL LEE.

Lee regularly tortured his slaves, and sold their infants. Far from being loved by his slaves, they detested him, and most ran away. They ran away despite the death and torture that were pomised them.

Lee’s slaves said “he was the meanest man I ever saw”.

Lee was also a coward, contrary to the lunatic myth of his bravery. Longstreet reported that Lee always got as far away from battle as he possibly could. Longstreet also wrote about Lee often complaining about his health, and trying to get relieved of command, so he could get out of the Army, the last six months of the war. Davis turned him down.

Lee ran from Richmond on the false rumor of a breach in the line (the line being the massive earth works Lee had over 100,000 slaves build). Lee did not even check if the rumor of a breach was true, he just fled, and ordered the warehouses burned as he dashed off.

The fires Lee ordered set spread, nearly burning the whole town down, because no males were around to put it out. The mayor of RIchmond , 80 years old, had to ride out to the Union troops the next morning under a white flat, and ASK the Union soldiers to come in and help put out the fires.

Lee kept running, despite his aides appeals to stand somewhere and fight. Lee tried to find someplace to surrender for several days, and once he found it, he snuck off from his aides, put on an immaculate uniform, and went to surrernder.

Lee was ordered NOT to surrender by Davis, but Lee did anyway. He would look like the coward he was, if he just surrendered himself personally. So he surrendered his whole army — against orders.

Lee was not only a [explicit] in war, he was a [explicit] around Davis. Lee knew the war was futile and the longer it dragged out, the more men died needlessly. But Lee had often sent his men to die needlessly, he reallyl didn’t care.

For six months AFTER Lee had told others it was futile, he was still sending others to die, and kill, knowing it was over. But he was afraid to confront Davis. Davis was a guy Lee had brownnosed for years, and Lee never once in his life stood up to Davis. Rather than tell Davis the truth, Lee did what Nazi generals did — tell Davis (Hitler) what he wanted to hear.

Lee was simply too afraid to tell Davis the truth, so he kept ordering men to their death. But when Lee personally got near danger, he ran, and then ran off, to surrender.

Lee was nothing like you folks have been told.
R E Lee on PBS « A Student of History

This seems to have come almost verbatim from this site (one of the comments about this special). It mentions this information coming from the book by Elizabeth Pryor called Reading the Man. I believe someone earlier mentioned this book as being unreliable. Possibly the same person posted this comment both on this site as well as on the other forum.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 03:28 AM   #305

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Originally Posted by Clemmie View Post
R E Lee on PBS « A Student of History

This seems to have come almost verbatim from this site (one of the comments about this special). It mentions this information coming from the book by Elizabeth Pryor called Reading the Man. I believe someone earlier mentioned this book as being unreliable. Possibly the same person posted this comment both on this site as well as on the other forum.
I read Reading the Man, and this stuff would make Elizabeth Pryor blush too. There are a couple things in the blog entry that might have been lifted from the book and exaggerated, but the vast majority of it is pure fabrication.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 03:29 AM   #306

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Apparently, her book is getting a lot of play, even from the Library of Congress. Here is a webcast:

A Portrait of Robert E. Lee Through His Private Letters Webcast (Library of Congress)

From a review of her book:

Quote:

Still, his letters and
Pryor’s analysis reinforce our appreciation of
Lee’s best qualities, including his personal
warmth, devotion to friends and family, and
sense of fairness.
Booklist, 4/1/2007, Vol. 103 Issue 15, p22

also:

Quote:

She makes it clear that while
Lee may have found slavery distasteful for reasons having more to do with
efficiency than morality, he was resigned to it and indeed upheld and enforced
it. As with much in his life, he "accommodated" himself to his surroundings
(p. 147). In these chapters a different Lee emerges. In looking at Lee's social
views, his engineering career, his tenure as superintendent at West Point, his
politics, and his religion, the reader is struck by Lee's passivity, his acceptance
of conventions, and, one might say, his unimaginativeness. There is barely
a hint of the aggressive, innovative, and brilliant military commander who
would later emerge. It is this contrast between Lee the man and Lee the general
and also between Lee the man and Lee the myth that clearly fascinates Pryor.
Pryor's stated purpose, however, is not to debunk the mythical Lee: "Rather,
it is to amplify our understanding of what constitutes heroism, and how as an
ordinary person Lee faced the vagaries of the human condition" (p. xiii). In
the latter she succeeds brilliantly, constructing a portrait of great complexity
and richness.
Journal of Southern History; May2009, Vol. 75 Issue 2, p458-460

Last edited by Clemmie; November 15th, 2012 at 03:44 AM.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 03:39 AM   #307

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I read Reading the Man, and this stuff would make Elizabeth Pryor blush too. There are a couple things in the blog entry that might have been lifted from the book and exaggerated, but the vast majority of it is pure fabrication.
Unfortunately, I haven't had the pleasure of reading her book. So if her source is lifted from Lee's own private letters, does the accusation that Yankee is making, have any credence? Does she mention in her book anything that alleges a "hunting list"?
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Old November 15th, 2012, 03:44 AM   #308

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Originally Posted by Rongo View Post
I read Reading the Man, and this stuff would make Elizabeth Pryor blush too. There are a couple things in the blog entry that might have been lifted from the book and exaggerated, but the vast majority of it is pure fabrication.
Yeah, apparently not from her book.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 03:48 AM   #309

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera tigris altaica View Post
Unfortunately, I haven't had the pleasure of reading her book. So if her source is lifted from Lee's own private letters, does the accusation that Yankee is making, have any credence? Does she mention in her book anything that alleges a "hunting list"?
All I remember her saying is that he put out ads for their return. He didn't have enough escaped slaves to keep a "hunting list". I can only recall her mentioning two instances of slave escapes, each involving a couple slaves. It's been a while since I've read the book though, so I could be mistaken on the exact specifics of that. But there was absolutely no mention in her book at all, in any way, shape or form, of him paying "almost obsessive attention to the young slave girls he wanted to capture."
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Old November 15th, 2012, 03:52 AM   #310

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Originally Posted by Clemmie View Post
Apparently, her book is getting a lot of play, even from the Library of Congress. Here is a webcast:

A Portrait of Robert E. Lee Through His Private Letters Webcast (Library of Congress)

From a review of her book:



Booklist, 4/1/2007, Vol. 103 Issue 15, p22

also:



Journal of Southern History; May2009, Vol. 75 Issue 2, p458-460
I believe I recall hearing an interview with her where she said that she disliked Lee when she started researching the book, but by the time she was done she had grown to like him somewhat (but don't quote me on that). That is definitely evident in the book. However, her upfront bias is also evident, as in the slave-whipping chapter that I cited on another thread.
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