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Old November 18th, 2012, 05:16 PM   #511

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Look at how this has gone. The original thread was about Lee and did he believe in slavery and was he as good a general as history tends to say he is. You win Viperlord, I am done with the argument about Jackson. Hopeforus was right.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 05:20 PM   #512

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It's funny how those who cheerfully start and participate in off-topic discussions, are among the first to wring their hands and lament that said off-topicness when questioned on their logic or asked for examples. Given that you replied to a post about Early and Lee with a post praising the virtues of Jackson, I'm not sure where you get off on mounting the high-horse of adherence to the topic now.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 09:08 PM   #513

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oops, my bad. It's harder to tell gender in the older pics since all babies were in gowns. Thanks for the correction. So gentleman and grandson were slaves at Arlington?
Grandfather was a slave at Arlington. Grandson appears to have been born in 1864, a year after the Custis slaves were emancipated.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 01:58 AM   #514

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Grandfather was a slave at Arlington. Grandson appears to have been born in 1864, a year after the Custis slaves were emancipated.
Thank you. Now I did read that, antebellum, there were an increasing number of White looking slaves. Is there any truth to this? I'm sure it was a fraction of a percent, but I still find it disturbing.
In another discussion someone mentioned a particular plantation where the slaves were as White as the Union soldiers and there was clearly torture happening there. Slaves were whipped so much, they had blankets around the trees to protect the trees from scarring. If a slave ran away and was caught his/her leg was broken, allowed to heal, then re-broken so a few of them hobbled. Again, I'm sure this was a fraction of a percent, but still disturbing. Any hint as to the owner of that plantation? I was told but have since forgotten.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 03:21 AM   #515

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“Many historians consider Robert E. Lee the greatest general of the Civil War, and it is generally agreed that his military genius, hampered though it was by lack of men and materiel, was a principal factor in keeping the Confederacy alive. Others point out, however, that he never developed a coordinated overall strategy, that he failed to provide an adequate supply system for his armies, and that he was reluctant to deal with difficult subordinates such as Longstreet. Of admirable personal character, Lee was idolized by his soldiers and the people of the South and soon won the admiration of the North. He has remained an ideal of the South and an American hero.”

Robert E. Lee
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Old November 20th, 2012, 12:38 PM   #516
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To follw the Second Bull Run/Manasas strategy would have required the South to disengage, which Lee was determined not to do at Gettysburg. Most sources I've seen make the mention that Longstreet argued extensively with Lee to adopt that sort of strategy and disengage from Meade and move elsewhere... but Lee was firm, and Longstreet ultimately caved and carried out Lee's orders.
Now that brings to mind another 'what-if'... What if Stonewall Jackson was still alive and would have joined Longstreet's (or other way around, Longstreet joining Jackson's) argument of disengaging? With both of his main subordinates arguing against him, would it have been Lee who would have 'caved'? And potentially leading to another defensive victory for the Confederates, had the Union Army been ordered to pursue and engage them?
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Old November 20th, 2012, 12:42 PM   #517
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Thank you. Now I did read that, antebellum, there were an increasing number of White looking slaves. Is there any truth to this? I'm sure it was a fraction of a percent, but I still find it disturbing.
.
Because I think back then the Whites had children with the Slaves. 1/4 of all slaves(in america) had a White Ancestor.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 02:37 PM   #518

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Now that brings to mind another 'what-if'... What if Stonewall Jackson was still alive and would have joined Longstreet's (or other way around, Longstreet joining Jackson's) argument of disengaging? With both of his main subordinates arguing against him, would it have been Lee who would have 'caved'? And potentially leading to another defensive victory for the Confederates, had the Union Army been ordered to pursue and engage them?
Now that's an interesting "what-if." I'm not sure that it would have made a difference long term, but might have allowed Lee to disengage without the horrendous losses of the Grande Assault.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 02:18 AM   #519

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Because I think back then the Whites had children with the Slaves. 1/4 of all slaves(in america) had a White Ancestor.
That is a very large number. I came a across a book I will put in queue called "The Forgotten Cause of the Civil War." Seems there were a number of light skinned slaves. I find southern slavery disgusting already but I cant' lie, knowing that they were making slaves of Whites make it really hit home.


White Slaves in the Antebellum South - AD Powell - Open Salon

Free states exercised "states' rights" by passing personal liberty laws to nullify the effects of the federal Fugitive Slave Law. This law gave the accused slave no rights to bring witnesses, have a jury, or any other forms of due process. The judge was authorized by the law to receive a larger fee if he ruled against the slave than if he ruled in his favor. Tenzer also shows that, when you consider the low wages of the average Southern white male, coupled with sharp rises in slave prices, slave catching was a tempting business. The slave catcher would earn more with one kidnapping expedition than he could earn by a year or two of hard labor.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 06:43 PM   #520
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That is a very large number. I came a across a book I will put in queue called "The Forgotten Cause of the Civil War." Seems there were a number of light skinned slaves. I find southern slavery disgusting already but I cant' lie, knowing that they were making slaves of Whites make it really hit home.


White Slaves in the Antebellum South - AD Powell - Open Salon

Free states exercised "states' rights" by passing personal liberty laws to nullify the effects of the federal Fugitive Slave Law. This law gave the accused slave no rights to bring witnesses, have a jury, or any other forms of due process. The judge was authorized by the law to receive a larger fee if he ruled against the slave than if he ruled in his favor. Tenzer also shows that, when you consider the low wages of the average Southern white male, coupled with sharp rises in slave prices, slave catching was a tempting business. The slave catcher would earn more with one kidnapping expedition than he could earn by a year or two of hard labor.
I would like to publicly apologize to you for what you went through on this thread. We all assumed things, but only because we did not understand. The worse thing you can have is a consensus among amateur historians over something. Please forgive me Yankee, and welcome to Historum. You are a breath of fresh air.
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