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Old December 29th, 2011, 09:48 AM   #31

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Often a team will hire an assistant coach from a winning team and make them their
head coach. More often than not, that move just doesn't work.

That makes sense...especially to anyone in Cincinnati. Mike Brown (owner of the Bengals) has made that scenario into a perfected science


Although, we are riding high this season and for the moment, a wild card...but we know how quickly the Bungals can, well, bungle things up.
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Old December 29th, 2011, 10:04 AM   #32

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I really have nothing substantial to add to this discussion. Just wanted to show my appreciation for Viper's posts here. Very informative! Keep 'em coming!
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Old December 29th, 2011, 10:17 AM   #33
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Best- Lee,did what no one thought was possible fought with fewer men & resource's from 1861-1865. Most people assumed the war could not go on past a year or the CSA was finished. Als Lee was brilliant in dealing with political aspect's of war, as evidenced by his offensive into Maryland, and his surrender negotiation's. He also was the most strategically sound of all general's.
Underrated- Sherman. In my eye's he won the war, period. Grant while able, was only a blocking force/holding force keeping Lee from reinforcing the South/West against the march to the sea, which was the real "picketts charge" in the war, it did not occur at Gettysburg friend's.
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Old December 29th, 2011, 10:39 AM   #34

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Underrated- Sherman. In my eye's he won the war, period. Grant while able, was only a blocking force/holding force keeping Lee from reinforcing the South/West against the march to the sea, which was the real "picketts charge" in the war, it did not occur at Gettysburg friend's.
I don't believe you're taking into account that Grant was running the entire war effort at this point. Meade's army was the "holding" force, and that's where Grant was because that's where he believed he was needed the most. Sherman was facing the Army of the Tennessee, an army with a almost unbroken losing record, under Joe Johnston then John Bell Hood. Neither man was Lee, and Sherman simply had space for maneuver which was never available to Grant in the Overland Campaign.
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Old December 29th, 2011, 10:45 AM   #35
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@Viperlord, Agreed Viper, I admit, I didn't factor in Grant being the strategist for the march to the sea, I guess sherman just excecuted it, under Grant's order's?
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Old December 29th, 2011, 10:50 AM   #36

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@Viperlord, Agreed Viper, I admit, I didn't factor in Grant being the strategist for the march to the sea, I guess sherman just excecuted it, under Grant's order's?
The basic concept of Sherman marching on Atlanta was part of Grant's overall strategy, yes. Sherman does deserve a great deal of credit for executing it well though.
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Old December 29th, 2011, 11:21 AM   #37

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Just wanted to show my appreciation for Viper's posts here. Very informative! Keep 'em coming!

Agreed...the man knows his stuff.

1) He changed my view on Grant
2) He has a top notch signature
3) Knows he can't change my view on Custer, but lets keep that quiet since he might be the only one that could
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Old December 29th, 2011, 11:31 AM   #38
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Viper why do you think McDowell who I believe was the worst General of the war, was so inept at managment of the union force's, and could not capitialize on the early momentum of supposed union superiority not onlyin force size, but in equipment and disposition? It seem's by his action's it set the tone for the war to be a long one.
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Old December 29th, 2011, 11:47 AM   #39

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Viper why do you think McDowell who I believe was the worst General of the war, was so inept at managment of the union force's, and could not capitialize on the early momentum of supposed union superiority not onlyin force size, but in equipment and disposition? It seem's by his action's it set the tone for the war to be a long one.
McDowell is something of an odd figure in the early war for sure. McDowell delivered a decent plan for the First Manassas Campaign and had a good chance of success. Patterson failed to keep Johnston pinned down however, and while both armies were inexperienced, I'd be inclined to say the tactical defensive gave the Confederates the upper hand. He certainly wasn't great, but there was more to the Union failure at Manassas than McDowell. McDowell was a supply officer, not a combat leader, and it showed. McDowell was sort of made Pope's scapegoat for the 2nd Manassas failure, despite McDowell warning him about the possibility of Longstreet coming up through Thoroughfare Gap and wanting to do more about it. On the field itself though, McDowell reverted to indecision and was simply not effective.
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Old December 29th, 2011, 08:55 PM   #40

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The basic concept of Sherman marching on Atlanta was part of Grant's overall strategy, yes. Sherman does deserve a great deal of credit for executing it well though.
I agree. I think Sherman also deserves credit for the basic strategy of marching to Savannah, and from there into the Carolinas. Grant was initially opposed to the idea and wanted Sherman to follow Hood, who was heading northwards and operating in his rear. But Sherman said "If he will go to the Ohio River I will give him rations... Let him go north. My business is down South."

But it took a month of convincing to get Grant to go along. As late as November 2, 1864, Grant was still urging Sherman to pursue Hood, to which Sherman replied "If I turn back the whole effect of my campaign will be lost." Finally Grant replied "go as you propose." (Source: Lloyd Lewis, Sherman, Fighting Prophet, p. 430)

I think the march through Georgia and South Carolina was what really broke the back of the Confederacy, and the war would have lasted much longer if it weren't for Grant going along with Sherman's idea. They were a great team, and they enhanced each other's greatness. I think the same can be said of Lee and Jackson too. I would rate those four generals at the top of my list.
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