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Old December 2nd, 2009, 10:08 AM   #21

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Re: The Spanish vs English Colonies


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Originally Posted by OUmillenium View Post
Not discounting other factors, but I believe the Spanish were primarily driven by gold fever...
You're right, it was the tri-fecta of 'gold, land & religion"
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 08:42 AM   #22

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Re: The Spanish vs English Colonies


Here´s a short summary of spanish “conquistadores” in north America:
Corte Real brothers 1500 (near Hudson River)
Francisco de Garay 1518 (coast of Florida)
Alonso de Pineda 1519 (gulf of Mexico coast)
Ponce de León 1521 (Florida Everglades)
Vazquez de Ayllón expedition 1521 (Virginia. He founded San Miguel settlement in Chesapeake Bay)
Esteban Gómez 1524 (Hudson River)
Pánfilo Narváez expedition 1528 (Florida. Defeated by the natives).
Cabeza de Vaca 1529-1536 (survivor of Narvaez´s expedition. He travelled on foot from Florida to México)
Hernando de Soto expedition 1541 (They explored Mississipi river)
Vázquez de Coronado 1540 (Arizona, New México, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas)
García López de Cárdenas 1540 (he discovered the Great Canyon)
Menéndez de Avilés 1565 (foundation of San Agustin, the oldest north american town. He also explored north and South Carolina coast)
Juan Pardo 1567 (He founded five settlements in North Carolina)
The south-west of the US was also explored by Cabrillo, Hernán Cortés, Rodríguez y Espejo, Oñate, Anza, Portolá…
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 08:55 AM   #23
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Re: The Spanish vs English Colonies


Lots of sound history and reasoning here, and much more that might be adduced no doubt. A more general answer -- obvious, but neglected -- is that all empires reach limits where maintenance and expansion become untenable. (Don't tell the American Enterprise Institute I said that!)
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Old January 18th, 2010, 11:49 PM   #24

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Re: The Spanish vs English Colonies


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Originally Posted by pinguin View Post
However, in the New World the church didn't waste its time burning people. The only places where inquisition acted was in Lima and I believe in Mexico. However, the territories were so widespread that most of the land simply didn't have an inquisition service at all.
I disagree.

1492 was not only the year that Columbus landed in the Caribbean islands, it was also the end of the Reconquista, the 800 year war that reconquered the iberian peninsula under chrisitian rule. This war was one of conquest that became holy, giving birth to the Spanish Inquisition. This was also what infromed the cultural background, social framework and religious attitude that the Spanish confronted the natives with.

Although the "official" Inquisition tribunals were limited to Peru and Mexico, the forced conversion or death thing was happening all over. It's what the Spanish knew to do! And with God on their side (and the papal bulls to prove it) they created chaos!

Here is one of the bulls Pope Alexander VI provided Spain in 1493. In it it states the following:
..."Christopher Columbus... discovered certain very remote islands and even mainlands that hitherto had not been discovered by others; wherein dwell very many peoples living in peace, and, as reported, going unclothed, and not eating flesh. Moreover, as your aforesaid envoys are of opinion, these very peoples living in the said islands and countries believe in one God, the Creator in heaven, and seem sufficiently disposed to embrace the Catholic faith and be trained in good morals. And it is hoped that, were they instructed, the name of the Savior, our Lord Jesus Christ, would easily be introduced into the said countries and islands."
"Wherefore, as becomes Catholic kings and princes, after earnest consideration of all matters, especially of the rise and spread of the Catholic faith, as was the fashion of your ancestors, kings of renowned memory, you have purposed with the favor of divine clemency to bring under your sway the said mainlands and islands with their residents and inhabitants and to bring them to the Catholic faith."
Here is the Requirement, the document that gave Spain the authority to conquer and kill all who opposed "God's plan".
"...that you acknowledge the Church as the Ruler and Superior of the whole world, and the high priest called Pope, and in his name the King and Queen Doña Juana our lords, in his place, as superiors and lords and kings of these islands and this Tierra-firme by virtue of the said donation..."
The last two paragraphs are a hoot... damned if you do, damned if you don't.
"If you do so, you will do well, and that which you are obliged to do to their Highnesses, and we in their name shall receive you in all love and charity, and shall leave you, your wives, and your children, and your lands, free without servitude, that you may do with them and with yourselves freely that which you like and think best, and they shall not compel you to turn Christians, unless you yourselves, when informed of the truth, should wish to be converted to our Holy Catholic Faith, as almost all the inhabitants of the rest of the islands have done. And, besides this, their Highnesses award you many privileges and exemptions and will grant you many benefits.

"But, if you do not do this, and maliciously make delay in it, I certify to you that, with the help of God, we shall powerfully enter into your country, and shall make war against you in all ways and manners that we can, and shall subject you to the yoke and obedience of the Church and of their Highnesses; we shall take you and your wives and your children, and shall make slaves of them, and as such shall sell and dispose of them as their Highnesses may command; and we shall take away your goods, and shall do you all the mischief and damage that we can, as to vassals who do not obey, and refuse to receive their lord, and resist and contradict him; and we protest that the deaths and losses which shall accrue from this are your fault, and not that of their Highnesses, or ours, nor of these cavaliers who come with us. And that we have said this to you and made this Requisition, we request the notary here present to give us his testimony in writing, and we ask the rest who are present that they should be witnesses of this Requisition."
As for the burnings.... Bartolome de las Casas has some to say about that....

This is the way I understand the writings, anyway...
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Old January 18th, 2010, 11:50 PM   #25

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Re: The Spanish vs English Colonies


BTW, I do agree that the main impetus was greed....
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Old January 19th, 2010, 04:08 AM   #26

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Re: The Spanish vs English Colonies


Nice post Taino. Glad you followed your blog here.
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