Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > American History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

American History American History Forum - United States, Canada, Mexico, Central and South America


View Poll Results: Native North Americans more successful against the whites
Apache 14 23.33%
Blackfoot 1 1.67%
Cherokee 6 10.00%
Cheyenne 0 0%
Comanche 16 26.67%
Kiowa 1 1.67%
Delaware 0 0%
Mohawk 3 5.00%
Mohican 0 0%
Natchez 0 0%
Navajos 2 3.33%
Nez Perce 1 1.67%
Pawnee 2 3.33%
Pawnee 1 1.67%
Sioux 19 31.67%
Ute 0 0%
Other 9 15.00%
None 4 6.67%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old July 22nd, 2012, 11:33 AM   #11

Salah's Avatar
Baltimorean
¤ Blog of the Year ¤
 
Joined: Oct 2009
From: Maryland
Posts: 23,286
Blog Entries: 182

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartieboy View Post
I suppose that nowadays a tank or two could deal with the apaches?
A tank can't shoot what it can't find. Even today I think the only effective solution would be a very, very thorough aerial bombing of the entire southwest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartieboy View Post
The little I know on this subject makes me think the iriqous were most effective. Yo me they appear to be the most civilized.
They were definitely formidable, as were the various plains tribes ('Sioux' on the poll, the Cheyenne, and the Comanches). But it was the Seminoles and the Apaches who enjoyed the longest record of holding out against the US Army.

One band of the Seminoles in central Florida never did surrender, and still have descendants in the area to this day. It could be argued they were the only Indians to 'win' a war with the US.
Salah is offline  
Remove Ads
Old July 22nd, 2012, 11:37 AM   #12

bartieboy's Avatar
.
 
Joined: Dec 2010
From: The Netherlands
Posts: 6,616
Blog Entries: 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salah View Post
A tank can't shoot what it can't find. Even today I think the only effective solution would be a very, very thorough aerial bombing of the entire southwest.



They were definitely formidable, as were the various plains tribes ('Sioux' on the poll, the Cheyenne, and the Comanches). But it was the Seminoles and the Apaches who enjoyed the longest record of holding out against the US Army.

One band of the Seminoles in central Florida never did surrender, and still have descendants in the area to this day. It could be argued they were the only Indians to 'win' a war with the US.
But isn't that heavily influenced by the fact that they met the colonists first? If they lived on the west coast and could hide in the woods I suppose they would have been harder to find than the natives of the plains?
bartieboy is offline  
Old July 22nd, 2012, 11:40 AM   #13

Tairusiano's Avatar
Skull collector
 
Joined: Jun 2012
From: Brazil
Posts: 2,754
Blog Entries: 7

my vote go to the Seminoles
Tairusiano is offline  
Old July 22nd, 2012, 11:50 AM   #14

Salah's Avatar
Baltimorean
¤ Blog of the Year ¤
 
Joined: Oct 2009
From: Maryland
Posts: 23,286
Blog Entries: 182

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartieboy View Post
But isn't that heavily influenced by the fact that they met the colonists first? If they lived on the west coast and could hide in the woods I suppose they would have been harder to find than the natives of the plains?
The Iroquois (who called themselves 'Five Nations', changed to 'Six Nations' when they adopted Indians from a tribe in North Carolina who were fleeing white settlers) had already established their confederation before whites began to colonize North America. Early English and French settlers called them the "Romans of the New World" because their political sophistication was so much more impressive than that of any of the other tribes in the region, and because they employed an 'army' of trained warriors from all their tribes to actively conquer and assimilate non-Iroquoian tribes.

Geography definitely took pity on some Indian tribes, most notably the Apaches. The harsh conditions in which they lived - coupled with their tiny population and their quiet lifestyle - is part of what made them such difficult opponents. Their mastery of guerilla warfare and terror tactics enhanced their reputation and encouraged their white enemies to blow their numbers and abilities out of porportion.

The Floridian Everglades similarly protected the Seminoles, who also adopted cunning tactics to face their numerically superior foes. The Seminoles were one of the most interesting Indian tribes. Originally they were an off-shoot of the Creek tribe, but they adopted large numbers of runaway black slaves into their communities. By the time of the Third Seminole War in the 1850s, there were many black chiefs in the tribe. Modern-day 'Black Seminoles' outwardly look no different than African-Americans, yet are technically considered Indians.
Salah is offline  
Old July 22nd, 2012, 12:18 PM   #15

tjadams's Avatar
Epicurean
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Texas
Posts: 25,362
Blog Entries: 6

I have to go with the Comanche first, then the Seminoles.
tjadams is offline  
Old July 22nd, 2012, 12:33 PM   #16

unclefred's Avatar
The Snub Nosed Truth
 
Joined: Dec 2010
From: Oregon coastal mountains
Posts: 6,711
Blog Entries: 33

Another way to look at it, Salah brought this to mind, is that maybe the more 'successful' tribes were the ones who adapted to the new reality and found ways to live with the new settlers and partially adapt their lifestyles in ways to bring them success.

On the west coast, it didn't happen that way, for the most part, and I don't see that with the plains tribes either.
unclefred is offline  
Old July 22nd, 2012, 01:54 PM   #17
Jedi Knight
 
Joined: Nov 2010
From: Indiana
Posts: 6,091

The Pueblo. Popé's Pueblo Revolt stopped the Europeans longer then any other Indian war.
Mike McClure is offline  
Old July 22nd, 2012, 02:24 PM   #18
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2012
From: Here
Posts: 4,037
Blog Entries: 9

I'd be a little careful about calling the Seminole "successful." First, in 1820, the Indians called Seminoles were pushed onto a reservation in central Florida that had much less fertile ground than their original North Florida locations. So they were already unsuccessful in that sense 15 years before the 2nd war started. Then about 3 years into the 2nd Seminole War most (4/5ths?) had been moved to Oklahoma. Yes, several hundred still eluded the army for several more years until the army called it quits, but they were pushed even further down into the even less hospitable Everglades.

How much better that living was than Oklahoma I don't know, but I'd agree if someone maintained that their freedom there was better than life on a reservation. I admire the tenacity and persevere of the Seminoles, but I wouldn't over-romanticize their "success."
Jax Historian is offline  
Old July 22nd, 2012, 02:32 PM   #19

tjadams's Avatar
Epicurean
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Texas
Posts: 25,362
Blog Entries: 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax Historian View Post
I'd be a little careful about calling the Seminole "successful."
All Amerindians, not matter the tribe, eventually lost out no matter how much resistance they were able to muster.
tjadams is offline  
Old July 22nd, 2012, 02:51 PM   #20
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2012
From: Here
Posts: 4,037
Blog Entries: 9

That's for sure, but the Seminole case is different from , say, the Cherokee.
The Cherokee were in the same place much longer than the Seminole. I think the Cherokee from at least when Jamestown was founded in 1607, the Seminoles, as someone else said, were remnants of other tribes, mostly Creeks, who started gathering in north Florida around 1750 or so (the original Florida Indian tribes, like the Tumacuans, had essentially been decimated).

The Seminole lost their position in north Florida by 1820 (as the result of the First Seminole War). So really, at that point, they were reservation Indians already. The Cherokee still had another 18? years before their removal. So the Seminoles' time as free Indians was pretty short, about 70 years, except for the few hundred who stayed on in the everglades. And a couple hundred Cherokee got to stay in Carolina, too.

I agree, non were ultimately successful in maintaining their homelands. But I'd go with another group (I think the Iroquois was a good claim as most successful, but I don't know all the tribes' history) over the Seminoles.

Last edited by Jax Historian; July 22nd, 2012 at 03:00 PM.
Jax Historian is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > American History

Tags
american, life, miserable, native, north, opposed or made, tribe, white



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Favorite Native American tribe? Road Runner American History 76 August 31st, 2017 01:53 AM
which n. american indian tribe do you admire the most kbear American History 48 May 8th, 2014 04:35 AM
Why native North Americans were so far behind the Europeans technologically jcozad Ancient History 21 March 2nd, 2010 02:26 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.