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Old November 8th, 2012, 12:43 PM   #101
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So, if a terrorist (ala Jack Bauer) captures the President and forces him to sign a document giving Texas back to Mexico, I suppose we should respect that. Cause its how nations are born?

What hogwash. Texas got its independence because Mexico wasn't motivated or united enough to fight the Texians any further. Same reason the US got its independence from Britain. Unless of course your argument would be that Sam Houston's army was truly sufficient to take on a prepared and consolidated Mexican army instead of getting lucky enough on a surprise attack to capture Santa Anna.

I get the feeling you aren't so much interested in exploring history and its various perspectives. More like trying to have the final word on a debate that has been going on for a couple of centuries. I wish you well in that and all your endeavors. But I will be content to enjoy learning about both sides of the debate and allowing it to continue on into the next couple of centuries.
A more correct example would be that the "terrorist" leads an army that defeats the army led by the king. The king then agrees to live and let live.

Under your argument, Texas in fact never existed, becuase you don't like the style of the treaty. Thats not logical.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 12:46 PM   #102
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That couldn't be any more absurd; the existence of Texas couldn't have depended on the mere signature of Mr Santa Anna.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 01:02 PM   #103

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The Californios would have rebelled eventually. Meanwhile, Anglophone Americans would have settled the lands north of the Rio Bravo and in the north of las California. Considering how the Mexican government has always had difficulty managing its north (even today with the cartels) I doubt Mexico could have kept its far north.

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Old November 8th, 2012, 01:07 PM   #104
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That couldn't be any more absurd; the existence of Texas couldn't have depended on the mere signature of Mr Santa Anna.
It didn't. It depended on the 630 Mexican soldiers killed, 208 wounded, and 730 taken prisoner as well as death or capture of two other Mexican generals. It merely helps when you capture the enemy leader too.

Although Mexico disputed the treaty later, they did not again launch a major campaign north.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 01:13 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by WeisSaul View Post
The Californios would have rebelled eventually. Meanwhile, Anglophone Americans would have settled the lands north of the Rio Bravo and in the north of las California. Considering how the Mexican government has always had difficulty managing its north (even today with the cartels) I doubt Mexico could have kept its north.
Frankly, like Spain before it why would they want to? The region is huge admittedly. but at the time there were few settlements or much of worth. Much of it is desert. Indeed they later sold an additional piece to the US (Gadsden purchase) so Santa Anna (now President) could fund his army to put down even more rebellions.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 01:15 PM   #106

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The Mexican president was then Jose Justo Corro...
True. When Santa Anna went on campaign to put down other rebelling
Mexican states, Miguel Barragan was interim-president. But he didn't
last long because he died while in office. Next to fill the seat till
Santa Anna returned, was Jose Corro who remained in office till 1837
when he turned over power to Anastasio Bustamante. Santa Anna
returned to Mexico and went to his hacienda, but he didn't remain
there long. Working with Mariano Paredes y Arrillaga, Santa Anna
challenged Bustamante to power who realized he was out maneuvered
and agreed to step down.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 01:23 PM   #107

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltis View Post
So, if a terrorist (ala Jack Bauer) captures the President and forces him to sign a document giving Texas back to Mexico, I suppose we should respect that. Cause its how nations are born?

What hogwash. Texas got its independence because Mexico wasn't motivated or united enough to fight the Texians any further. Same reason the US got its independence from Britain. Unless of course your argument would be that Sam Houston's army was truly sufficient to take on a prepared and consolidated Mexican army instead of getting lucky enough on a surprise attack to capture Santa Anna. ...
True. Mexico, the parent country, never recognized the independence of
Texas as a nation just as the US never recognized the Confederacy as a independent nation either.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 01:31 PM   #108
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True. Mexico, the parent country, never recognized the independence of
Texas as a nation just as the US never recognized the Confederacy as a independent nation either.
EXCEPT, Texas won its war, and signed a treaty. The case of Lee vs. Grant determined that the CSA's claims to independence were unsustained.

Again to note, Texas wasn't special. It was just one state that rebelled at the time. Many states rebelled after in Mexico's history. Texas just happened to win.

As to the Mexican American war itself. Brilliantly executed overland campaign, considering the limited size and limited support it received from the US.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 01:47 PM   #109
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It didn't. It depended on the 630 Mexican soldiers killed, 208 wounded, and 730 taken prisoner as well as death or capture of two other Mexican generals. It merely helps when you capture the enemy leader too.

Although Mexico disputed the treaty later, they did not again launch a major campaign north.
More or less, but actually it depended more on the like 25,000 plus estimated Mexican casualties of the 1846-1848 War; it was only after the Guadalupe-Hidalgo treaty that Mexico formally renounced to any claim on Texas; again, God only knows why.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 02:14 PM   #110
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More or less, but actually it depended more on the like 25,000 plus estimated Mexican casualties of the 1846-1848 War; it was only after the Guadalupe-Hidalgo treaty that Mexico formally renounced to any claim on Texas; again, God only knows why.
God only knows why Mexico renounced its claims? I think the casualty numbers and taking of Mexico City did it.
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