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Old November 8th, 2012, 01:19 PM   #111

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Originally Posted by zincwarrior View Post
EXCEPT, Texas won its war, and signed a treaty. The case of Lee vs. Grant determined that the CSA's claims to independence were unsustained.
Sure, we all recognize the right of conquest. But the thread had to do with one's sense of justice in the origin of dispute. The right of conquest doesn't normally have much justice to it. Instead depending upon upon one's ability to hold the territory.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 01:31 PM   #112

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.. The right of conquest doesn't normally have much justice to it. Instead depending upon upon one's ability to hold the territory.
True. I think back to the French & Indian War, the Brits and French slugged it out
for decades in trying to hold on to key sectors of America. The final winner was the
one who was able to take it.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 01:37 PM   #113
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God only knows why Mexico renounced its claims? I think the casualty numbers and taking of Mexico City did it.
Fascinating hypothesis.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 08:39 PM   #114

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A rather Mexican point of view.


Hello all, life is a curious thing indeed, while searching information of Byzantine Law, I found this thread and forum.

First of all, I want to adress some things:
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Originally Posted by Salah View Post
What are your thoughts on it?
Being objective, it was something "normal" as for what History can show us. But, being rather subjective, it is still for us now (yes, if the image hasn´t tell you yet, I´m Mexican) a very painful chapter in our history. It is so painful that we try not to touch the subject, and when we do so, anger or indignation are commonplace.

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Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
It was lost due to a colossal military disparity; period.
Technological disparity was also something critical; many rifles used by the Mexican Army dated back to the War of Independence period (1810-1821) vs the more modern and less problematic used ones by the US. Army. Also;
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Originally Posted by pikeshot1600 View Post
If anyone has info on the 1846 Mexican Army, please post it.
The Mexican "standard" (if the term can be applied) rifle was the Brown Bess, and I say standard because the Army was ill-equiped and utterly undertrained

Click the image to open in full size.

Someone said that Mexicans had numerical advantage. Well, thats ignorance. Mexico as a country had no real unity since it became independent, when the war bursted, many states said: "Thats not my problem, go arrange it yourself" to the Federation, giving no support thus to the war effort. In fact, some states even rebelled against the central government. The figures for the US Army (as for my sources, which don´t differ greatly with the ones already mentioned) are of 78,800 soldiers. The Mexican "Army" in its whole (with militia) was barely managing 40,000 men.

Now, lets pass to a statement for which many will try to undermine many of my clarifications on this subject; The historical success, setting aside the territorial changes, was for the US; in their aim to legitimate the land grab they fabricated many false claims and things to get a "fair" casus belli against Mexico. This "marketing" hit can be seen in the mind of many people nowadays;
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You can't deny the first battles were on US-Texas soil. if the Mexican army didn't attack there would have been no war.

"American blood in American soil", a logic hard to question or argue against without being labelled as "un-american" or "unpatriotic".

Last but not least;
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God only knows why Mexico renounced its claims? I think the casualty numbers and taking of Mexico City did it.
I concur with Sylla1, a fascinating hypothesis, but I would add, another war for Mexico was not an attractive and profitable business to do again. Although Mexico "renounced" its claims only on papers ( it is more a "de iure" and not a "de facto" issues).

Many Mexicans view those lands as ontologically part of the Nation, by which no law or treaty can be over for what it is its rightful propriety.

Nota bene: As inflaming as it can be the aforementioned statement, it is more a passive collective thought than a proactive will.

PS.: Sylla1, I have to commend your wit and use of language while exposing and defending your points.

I hope that this "Mexican point of view" can complement the panorama and context, no intention to stir controversy.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 10:23 PM   #115

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Tlacaelel, you might want to translate your signature, since this is an English speaking
board, signatures have to be in English or at least have an accompanied translation.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 10:57 PM   #116

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^ Indeed. If google translation can be trustworthy, then it sounds like it is a part of a inoffensive poem.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 12:43 AM   #117

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjadams View Post
Tlacaelel, you might want to translate your signature, since this is an English speaking
board, signatures have to be in English or at least have an accompanied translation.
Done, translating the sense of the poem in English isn´t too easy to let Google Translator do the job.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 01:10 AM   #118

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tough I do not know enough on the topic to contribute to it I have been following it for quite some time and I just wanted to say that your contribution is most valued Tlacaelel (you do have a hard name to pronounce)
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Old November 11th, 2012, 01:42 AM   #119

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tlacaelel View Post
I hope that this "Mexican point of view" can complement the panorama and context, no intention to stir controversy.
Welcome to the forum, Tlacaelel, and thank you for sharing your viewpoint.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 06:28 AM   #120
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tough I do not know enough on the topic to contribute to it I have been following it for quite some time and I just wanted to say that your contribution is most valued Tlacaelel (you do have a hard name to pronounce)
His internet name could be Huitzilihuitl.
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