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Old November 27th, 2012, 08:30 PM   #121

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Empire Envy? Is that anything like gout? Your trolling is really becoming obvious here.
Ah? I am trolling?!?!

In this particular thread all you have done is supply 2 line, inane petty jabs at the Empire.

Please either contribute to the overall thread in a constructive way or find the section of the forum that has coloring books so you can then participate in a manner your comfortable with.

Cheers
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Old November 27th, 2012, 08:32 PM   #122

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Laughed hard at that one.

I also don't think the main reason was "freedom" or anything romantic like that.

Thank you Farinal, it was a real simple point I have been making since post #2. But the Super Nationalist from good old Stuffed shirt USA as usual try to bring down everyone that is not them.
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Old November 27th, 2012, 08:33 PM   #123

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Agree with what you say, the two were always going to split eventually as the 'new country' grew just a question of how and when.

Were their demands 'reasonable'? they seem so today but there were some revolutionary ideas for the time.
From a European perspective it certainly was, But from the perspective of a colonial American, I'm sure the measures Great Britain were taking following the French Indian War were the ideas seen as radical. Remember Britain for nearly two centuries had practiced what was termed as Salutary Neglect in regards to the Colonies. Due in large part to this hands-off policy established by the British, the Americans had already developed a tradition of libertarianism which was somewhat unique in the world at the time and certainly couldn't be understood (and still at times can't) in the old world.

The colonists following the French Indian War were proud to be citizens and proud to have fought for the crown in what they seen as the 'Second Rome'. The British Isles were in their minds still the center of the world as relations between the two sides were perhaps never higher than the months following the peace. Yet the philosophical and spiritual schism had already taken place by the 1760's. Take the Americans refusing to grant quarters of British troop or their utter abhorrence and refusal to accept corporal punishment from British officers. If not culturally, politically the ship had already sailed.

Patriotism aside, I can certainty understand their frustrations when their way of life was beginning to erode due to a far away parliament suddenly deciding to dictate what was best for them. This was a very foreign concept to the colonials. I can also empathize with the British, whom, unbeknownst to them, were carrying a wolf by it ears.
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Old November 27th, 2012, 08:56 PM   #124

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Originally Posted by Paragonrex View Post
Ah? I am trolling?!?!

In this particular thread all you have done is supply 2 line, inane petty jabs at the Empire.

Please either contribute to the overall thread in a constructive way or find the section of the forum that has coloring books so you can then participate in a manner your comfortable with.

Cheers
True, but they are no worse than your four line, inane petty jabs at America.

Actually it's worse since you are actually, theoretically at least, debating other members of the forum all of whom have thrown solid evidence or solid argument your way, all of which I might add, has been uncontested. If you want to seriously converse be my guest. If you want to play a laughable gimmick of a posh victorian gentleman sitting around a rugby field in 19th century London gloating over your mighty EMPIRE, well then you will get what you ask for.
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Old November 27th, 2012, 08:57 PM   #125

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Originally Posted by WeisSaul View Post
Virginia repeatedly requested that Parliament end the importation of slaves.

Virginia also voted on whether to gradually emancipate slaves in 1832, with a plan to resettle freed slaves to Liberia. I think it would have resulted in full abolition by 1858 IIRC.
Yes indeed.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 02:35 AM   #126

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Virginia repeatedly requested that Parliament end the importation of slaves.

Virginia also voted on whether to gradually emancipate slaves in 1832, with a plan to resettle freed slaves to Liberia. I think it would have resulted in full abolition by 1858 IIRC.
VA wasn't asking for abolition. They were asking to end importation of new slaves. They had plenty of self-interest at heart. VA had all the slaves they needed and surplus. By 1800, VA had become a major supplier of slaves to the other southern states. They wanted to stop importation to make their value (thereby, prices for slaves) go up.

Sorry to be cynical but those requests to end importation were not as nice as one might think them to be at this point in time.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 02:56 AM   #127

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VA wasn't asking for abolition. They were asking to end importation of new slaves. They had plenty of self-interest at heart. VA had all the slaves they needed and surplus. By 1800, VA had become a major supplier of slaves to the other southern states. They wanted to stop importation to make their value (thereby, prices for slaves) go up.

Sorry to be cynical but those requests to end importation were not as nice as one might think them to be at this point in time.
Yes, and the King rejected the request because it would have meant the loss of big profits for British slavers. Looks like everybody is a soulless mercenary.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 03:34 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Baltis View Post
VA wasn't asking for abolition. They were asking to end importation of new slaves. They had plenty of self-interest at heart. VA had all the slaves they needed and surplus. By 1800, VA had become a major supplier of slaves to the other southern states. They wanted to stop importation to make their value (thereby, prices for slaves) go up.

Sorry to be cynical but those requests to end importation were not as nice as one might think them to be at this point in time.
Virginia repeatedly requested for Parliament to end the import of slaves into Virginia, IIRC.

It's intelligent to be a bit cynical but being cynical about everything everywhere is immature.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 03:42 AM   #129

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Better to be a bit cynical at times than to purposefully misrepresent history for the sake of trying to exonerate VA from its past. We learn from the past. What lesson does your misrepresentation provide? That history can be distorted for current purposes? That you can take a fact out of context and twist it to mean something totally different from what it actually was? Perhaps politics would make a better forum for you.
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Old November 28th, 2012, 04:01 AM   #130
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This I agree with. However, the colonists, although they had British roots, were no longer British. They had an entirely different experience and lived in an entirely different world than their British cousins an ocean away from them. Many British political and military leaders derided them as "provincials". The Americans didn't think much of the British either, by that point in time.
I don't thats true for the most parts, sure you had certain colonies that were growing quite independent like Mass, but many of the Southern colonies and even New York had quite strong feelings for England..The last numbers I read I believe showed that New York actually supplied more men to fight for the Crown then against it..
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