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Old December 13th, 2012, 08:55 PM   #91

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Another point is that the Japanese had poor AA defences, so P-38 pilots could work at low altitude.

At high altitude it suffered from its unusual design, the intercooler interfered with the wing airflow so it couldnt make high speed dives above 20,000 feet so it couldnt chase enemy fighters, its engines had an annoying tendency to burn out if run at more than 45 degrees and werent suitable anyway which is why the plan was to remove them and replace them with Merlins and the cockpit was way too cramped to fit much of the cold weather gear needed for european warfare.
It also suffered a string of as yet unexplained engine failures through early and mid 44 probably due to factory faults or poor design that damaged it reputation with the pilots and the bombers it was supposed to be defending.
It flew well with two engines, limping home on one because of a manufacturing fault when the Luftwaffe find you is not going to be your best day.

Its reputation mostly comes from the pacifice theatre where its range, ability to outpace most Japanese fighters and that little fact of killing Yamamoto boosted peoples opinion.
What is the source of your quote on performance please? I would like to have had it a few months ago in a debate with a US air buff who insisted that it was the "best aircraft of WW2" and refused to take account of Eric Brown's comments:-

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""We had found out that the Bf 109 and the Fw 190 could fight up to a Mach of 0.75, three-quarters the speed of sound. We checked the Lightning and it couldn't fly in combat faster than 0.68. So it was useless. We told Doolittle that all it was good for was photo-reconnaissance and had to be withdrawn from escort duties. And the funny thing is that the Americans had great difficulty understanding this because the Lightning had the two top aces in the Far East."
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Old December 13th, 2012, 09:55 PM   #92
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Who cares if you were right or wrong?

Germany declared war on you, what were you going to do apologise for being confused, surrender and ask if you could play on Germanys team now?
America forced The Japanese to declare war on USA in return knowing that Germany will declare war on USA means that USA had a reason to go to Europe. America was run by Jews and they wanted to go to Europe to destroy Germany. If America really wanted to stay out of WWII, they would had done so easily.

America cut off Japanese oil supply and moved their based to pearl Harbor...talking about dangling a piece of meat in front of a loin.

OH by the way...Great Britain declared war on Germany!
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Old December 13th, 2012, 10:31 PM   #93

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America forced The Japanese to declare war on USA in return knowing that Germany will declare war on USA means that USA had a reason to go to Europe. America was run by Jews and they wanted to go to Europe to destroy Germany. If America really wanted to stay out of WWII, they would had done so easily.

America cut off Japanese oil supply and moved their based to pearl Harbor...talking about dangling a piece of meat in front of a loin.

OH by the way...Great Britain declared war on Germany!
You know, Japan could have also decided, "okay, we WON'T conquer China and enslave its people." The notion that the oil embargo was a deliberate attempt by FDR to trick the Japanese into attacking the US is a ludicrous notion based on conspiracy theorits. While the embargo did urge the Japanese militarists on, I've seen no source that would indicate that that was its intention.

And while it is true that FDR was sympathetic to the British cause in Europe, it was not because of any desire to go to war in Europe. In fact, if you asked any American on the street in 1940 if he or she thought America should join the war in Europe or Asia, the answer would be a resounding "no." And since 1940 was an election year, it's doubtful that FDR would have done anything that would have jeopardized his chances for reelection.

And the millions spent by US tax dollars to rebuild Europe, including Germany, after the war through the Marshall plan shoots your whole antisemitic drivil to pieces.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 12:49 AM   #94
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And the millions spent by US tax dollars to rebuild Europe, including Germany, after the war through the Marshall plan shoots your whole antisemitic drivil to pieces.
America only rebuild Europe to keep the Cultural matrix making money. Europe (the west) is the cultural matrix biggest money maker, and without (Europe) they would've gone broke.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 03:13 AM   #95

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America forced The Japanese to declare war on USA in return knowing that Germany will declare war on USA means that USA had a reason to go to Europe. America was run by Jews and they wanted to go to Europe to destroy Germany. If America really wanted to stay out of WWII, they would had done so easily.

America cut off Japanese oil supply and moved their based to pearl Harbor...talking about dangling a piece of meat in front of a loin.

OH by the way...Great Britain declared war on Germany!
Pearl Harbor is America. I fail to see how having a base in your own country is provocative?
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Old December 14th, 2012, 03:39 AM   #96

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Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
What is the source of your quote on performance please? I would like to have had it a few months ago in a debate with a US air buff who insisted that it was the "best aircraft of WW2" and refused to take account of Eric Brown's comments:-
It possibly was, by the time they got to late 1944 and the L model they had assisted control surfaces for greater manouverability and better engines that for the first time outpaced the increase in weight caused by fixing its combat defects so it could outfly and outperform most german piston fighters.

Of course by then the Luftwaffe was mostly a spent force and the allies were on mainland europe so didnt need a long range fighter as much but what the hey, at least they got the perfect 1942 fighter in time for the end of the war.

Der Gabelschwanz Teufel - Assessing the Lockheed P-38 Lightning

Gives a fairly good listing of the technical faults but comes out as generally pro-P-38

The P-38 Lightning

Probably has more technical detail but has a more neutral tone
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Old December 14th, 2012, 04:16 AM   #97
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America forced The Japanese to declare war on USA in return knowing that Germany will declare war on USA means that USA had a reason to go to Europe. America was run by Jews and they wanted to go to Europe to destroy Germany. If America really wanted to stay out of WWII, they would had done so easily.

America cut off Japanese oil supply and moved their based to pearl Harbor...talking about dangling a piece of meat in front of a loin.

OH by the way...Great Britain declared war on Germany!
Yes we forced them to cross the world, obliterate our Pacific Fleet, kill thousands, invade the Phillipines, Thailand, malaya, Singapore, Vietnam, Burma, and Guam and kill hundreds of thousands or even millions more.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 04:38 AM   #98
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Pearl Harbor is America. I fail to see how having a base in your own country is provocative?
Why did America shut down the Japanese oil supply then moved their ship fleet closer to Japan! mmm..... America wasnt even In WWII, America was far far away from the combat. The point is, America wanted to be apart of WWII. I know the reason why. I know WWII politics.

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Yes we forced them to cross the world, obliterate our Pacific Fleet,
Yes you did.

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kill thousands, invade the Phillipines, Thailand, malaya, Singapore, Vietnam, Burma, and Guam and kill hundreds of thousands or even millions more.
And what is America doing now? and what did America do after WWII? How many wars did America start after WWII? what nation used the first atomic bomb and against the Japanese? The point is only America is allowed to invade and conquer' anyone else does it, they are seen as evil invaders and conquers.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 09:08 AM   #99
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Why did America shut down the Japanese oil supply then moved their ship fleet closer to Japan! mmm..... America wasnt even In WWII, America was far far away from the combat. The point is, America wanted to be apart of WWII. I know the reason why. I know WWII politics.

Yes you did.

And what is America doing now? and what did America do after WWII? How many wars did America start after WWII? what nation used the first atomic bomb and against the Japanese? The point is only America is allowed to invade and conquer' anyone else does it, they are seen as evil invaders and conquers.
The embargo eventually made Japan choose between pulling out of China and war with the US. We wanted them to pull out of China, we didn't want war. We gave them the choice and the opportunity to be reasonable, despite the fact that they were already engaged in a hostile act against us by undermining our economic interests in China. Ultimately, they made the choice we hoped they would avoid and paid the price for their foolishness.

You don't need to exert economic pressure on someone when you want to go to war, in that event you just declare war; you exert economic pressure on someone when you really ought to go to war, but would prefer not to.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 09:24 AM   #100

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The embargo eventually made Japan choose between pulling out of China and war with the US. We wanted them to pull out of China, we didn't want war. We gave them the choice and the opportunity to be reasonable, despite the fact that they were already engaged in a hostile act against us by undermining our economic interests in China. Ultimately, they made the choice we hoped they would avoid and paid the price for their foolishness.

You don't need to exert economic pressure on someone when you want to go to war, in that event you just declare war; you exert economic pressure on someone when you really ought to go to war, but would prefer not to.
Heads up, you're arguing with someone who blames the Jews for WWII - might be best to let it lie.
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