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Old December 14th, 2012, 07:29 PM   #31

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Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
The reason you got me suspended was because you did not understand, I think, that this is a left wing website in terms of the politics of the members. There was no reason to make humiliating remarks about me, followed by humiliating remarks by a moderator that I would guess you influenced.

I would guess that you did not read the thread we are on now. Why worry about truth in life?
I did read the thread. Your posts led to the declarative in question form for which my question remains. Why do you think that premise would be in play?
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Old December 14th, 2012, 07:49 PM   #32
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I did read the thread. Your posts led to the declarative in question form for which my question remains. Why do you think that premise would be in play?
Well, if this is like the last time, you will have a moderator attack me on the grounds that I do not know anything. It really is a great argument, it is the best way for liberals to eliminate all doubts.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 11:08 PM   #33

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You might want to repack that parachute before you use it again. Well, I'm off to bed. I tell you what, Virgil... If it will ease your mind you should contact the mods and ask them to refrain from attacking you on the grounds that you do not know anything. That should undercut all that influence you say I have with them, and you can return to this thread safe in the knowledge that no one will have to tell you that you know nothing. I'll let your insults and name calling slide for now.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 11:35 PM   #34

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Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
I seem to be missing something here, there are way worse things than this that a President can do. Nixon covered up something someone else did, and he was crucified for it. Every time the words Nixon or Watergate are said I feel like I should cringe, as it is such a dark stain on America. But is it? Why would the media go after Nixon so harshly back then?
A US president committed criminal acts in the USA against fellow US citizens for his own benefit, he disgraced himself and the position he held.
He deserved to lose his position as president and if there was any justice he should have gone to jail for it as well.
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Old December 15th, 2012, 02:23 AM   #35
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A US president committed criminal acts in the USA against fellow US citizens for his own benefit, he disgraced himself and the position he held.
He deserved to lose his position as president and if there was any justice he should have gone to jail for it as well.
When you hold that argument up to the light, I don't see the criminality on the level that you see it. The attempt to cover up an attempt to listen in on the democrats (yes illegally) is a minor thing, perhaps. Instead of telling me that it was and is illegal to plant bugs, and illegal to cover up said bugging, why not tell me something that is important to the office of president, as defined by other presidents.
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Old December 15th, 2012, 02:41 AM   #36

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Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
When it is all boiled down, it seems to me that a member of Nixon's staff ordered some burglars to plant some bugs in the office of the Democrat Party in the Watergate Building, and those burglars got caught. Later on, Nixon was told about it, and he tried to cover it up.

I seem to be missing something here, there are way worse things than this that a President can do. Nixon covered up something someone else did, and he was crucified for it.
Watergate was much bigger than that, and it all came directly from Nixon. It wasn't just something he found out about later. The Nixon tapes proved this conclusively. Even the CIA and FBI were in on Watergate. Does the name
Mark_Felt Mark_Felt
mean anything to you?

Quote:
Why would the media go after Nixon so harshly back then?
Because Watergate proved he was the most corrupt president in American history up to that time, and arguably the most dangerous.

Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward were the courageous journalists who broke the Watergate story and exposed the sinister machinations behind Nixon's election campaign. If you want to know why it was such a big deal, read their book:

Amazon.com: All the President's Men (9780671894412): Bob Woodward, Carl Bernstein: Books
Amazon.com: All the President's Men (9780671894412): Bob Woodward, Carl Bernstein: Books


Also read:

The Secret Man: The Story of Watergate's Deep Throat: Bob Woodward: 9780743287166: Amazon.com: Books
The Secret Man: The Story of Watergate's Deep Throat: Bob Woodward: 9780743287166: Amazon.com: Books


People involved with Watergate lived in fear of their lives. This was serious stuff.

Last edited by Sankari; December 15th, 2012 at 02:51 AM.
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Old December 15th, 2012, 02:50 AM   #37
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Watergate was much bigger than that, and it all came directly from Nixon. It wasn't just something he found out about later. The Nixon tapes proved this conclusively. Even the CIA was in on Watergate.



Because Watergate proved he was the most corrupt president in American history to date, and arguably the most dangerous.

Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward were the courageous journalists who broke the Watergate story and exposed the sinister machinations behind Nixon's election campaign. If you want to know why it was such a big deal, read their book:

Amazon.com: All the President's Men (9780671894412): Bob Woodward, Carl Bernstein: Books

People involved with Watergate lived in fear of their lives. This was serious stuff.
I have seen the movie, but I still wonder about the "crimes". Your summary, that Woodward and Bernstein were courageous, and Nixon was the horrible sinister villain, I still want to break it down. What story did Woodward and Bernstein break?
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Old December 15th, 2012, 02:53 AM   #38

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Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
I do wonder if being a Republican was the main crime that Nixon committed? Is that possible?
I have to say this sounds like right-wing paranoia, Virgil. Eisenhower and Reagan both committed the "crime" of being Republicans, and the media, and the country, loved them. Of course, as far as I know, Eisenhower and Reagan never drew up "black lists" of enemies and treated them as such.

Have you every listened to Nixon's tapes? Have you heard the awful, paranoic things he said about people? If it was you he was talking about, or you on his blacklist, how do you think you'd feel about him? Would it matter to you that he was a "Republican"?

But most importantly, we have him ON TAPE telling his aides to lie to the FBI investigators about issues of national security to halt the investigation into the criminal wrong-doings of his administration:

Quote:
when you...get
these people in, say: "Look, the problem is
that this will open the whole, the whole Bay
of Pigs thing, and the President just feels
that" ah, without going into the details...
don't, don't lie to them to the extent to
say there is no involvement, but just say
this is sort of a comedy of errors, bizarre,
without getting into it
, "the President
believes that it is going to open the whole
Bay of Pigs thing up again. And, ah because
these people are plugging for, for keeps and
that they should call the FBI in and say
that we wish for the country, don't go any
further into this case", period!


- Richard Nixon to H.R. Haldeman, June 23, 1972

Source: http://www.nixonlibrary.gov/forresea...exhibit_01.pdf

Last edited by Rongo; December 15th, 2012 at 02:58 AM. Reason: formatting
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Old December 15th, 2012, 02:59 AM   #39
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I have to say this sounds like right-wing paranoia, Virgil. Eisenhower and Reagan both committed the "crime" of being Republicans, and the media, and the country, loved them. Of course, as far as I know, Eisenhower and Reagan never drew up "black lists" of enemies and treated them as such.

Have you every listened to Nixon's tapes? Have you heard the awful, paranoic things he said about people? If it was you he was talking about, or you on his blacklist, how do you think you'd feel about him? Would it matter to you that he was a "Republican"?

But most importantly, we have him ON TAPE telling his aides to lie to the FBI investigators about issues of national security to halt the investigation into the criminal wrong-doings of his administration:
Good Lord Rongo, do you realize how far you just took that argument? You are talking about coaching people for political reasons, as if this does not occur today in politics.
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Old December 15th, 2012, 03:04 AM   #40

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Good Lord Rongo, do you realize how far you just took that argument? You are talking about coaching people for political reasons, as if this does not occur today in politics.
I'm going to turn the tables on you here, Virgil. Is it possible that YOU are willing to exhonorate Nixon because he had the VIRTUE of being a Republican? If you heard these kind of words coming from a Democratic President, would you casually brush them aside as merely "coaching people for political reasons"?
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