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Old February 16th, 2013, 03:08 AM   #1
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Was Meriwether Lewis murdered to protect Jefferson's purchase?


For over 200 years there has been wide speculation in the media, such as Smithsonian, and in books as to whether Meriwether Lewis died at Grinder's Stand of suicide or by murder. One such speculation presented by the History Channel 2 show America Unearthed: Motive for Murder, states that one of the tasks Lewis was given to achieve on his expedition was to determine if there was an ancient Welsh claim on the Louisiana territory, and the show attempts to prove whether Lewis was murdered because he found the Welsh claim on the Louisiana territory to be true. If Lewis was murdered, and pages were torn out of his journal, it was to protect Jefferson's purchase of the Louisiana territory and that the French sold us land they did not own. The show also claims the Mandarin tribe that Lewis lived with for so many months had a striking European appearance.
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Old February 16th, 2013, 03:48 AM   #2
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Ancient Welsh claim on the Louisiana territory? I think Wales was part of Great Britain so the English should have known.

The Mandan tribe did engage in cross pollination with white explorers according to Stephen Ambrose, but they were native americans. I would guess the Mandarin tribe would have Asian appearance.

Pics of Mandan
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A great book on Lewis is

Undaunted Courage: Meriwether Lewis, Thomas Jefferson, and the Opening of the American West: Stephen Ambrose: 9781847397638: Amazon.com: Books
Undaunted Courage: Meriwether Lewis, Thomas Jefferson, and the Opening of the American West: Stephen Ambrose: 9781847397638: Amazon.com: Books

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Old February 16th, 2013, 05:15 AM   #3

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Lewis did great service over four years in that expedition, and it does seem odd to me that the standard account is that he fell completely pieces and was a suicide case. He had overcome so many obstacles during that expedition and if I recall correctly for a period of months he was in charge of a part of the crew that was separated from William Clark (edit: replace the given name of the Amer Revolution leader). He had held command on his own.
Welsh claims and Mandarin tribes seem like a red herring, though.

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Old February 16th, 2013, 06:20 AM   #4

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PragmaticStatistic View Post
For over 200 years there has been wide speculation in the media, such as Smithsonian, and in books as to whether Meriwether Lewis died at Grinder's Stand of suicide or by murder. One such speculation presented by the History Channel 2 show America Unearthed: Motive for Murder, states that one of the tasks Lewis was given to achieve on his expedition was to determine if there was an ancient Welsh claim on the Louisiana territory, and the show attempts to prove whether Lewis was murdered because he found the Welsh claim on the Louisiana territory to be true. If Lewis was murdered, and pages were torn out of his journal, it was to protect Jefferson's purchase of the Louisiana territory and that the French sold us land they did not own. The show also claims the Mandarin tribe that Lewis lived with for so many months had a striking European appearance.
The idea that Lewis was murdered seems unlikely. The idea he was murdered to censor his journals is ridiculous. Written accounts were also left by William Clark (died 1838), Patrick Gass (died 1870), John Ordway (died c1817) and Joseph Whitehouse (alive in 1817).
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Old February 16th, 2013, 06:22 AM   #5

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Originally Posted by PragmaticStatistic View Post
..If Lewis was murdered, and pages were torn out of his journal, it was to protect Jefferson's purchase of the Louisiana territory and that the French sold us land they did not own..
The show was alluding that President Jefferson had Mr. Lewis killed?
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Old February 16th, 2013, 07:24 AM   #6
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If Meriwether Lewis was murdered it is more likely that James Wilkinson was behind it rather then Jefferson.
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Old February 16th, 2013, 07:37 AM   #8
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The show was alluding that President Jefferson had Mr. Lewis killed?
Yes, or some variation of it.
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Old February 16th, 2013, 07:49 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by yakmatt View Post
Ancient Welsh claim on the Louisiana territory? I think Wales was part of Great Britain so the English should have known.

The Mandan tribe did engage in cross pollination with white explorers according to Stephen Ambrose, but they were native americans. I would guess the Mandarin tribe would have Asian appearance.
Sorry for the typo on Mandan.

According to Wikipedia,

Quote:
18th-century reports about characteristics of Mandan lodges, religion and occasional physical features among tribal members, such as blue and grey eyes along with lighter hair coloring, stirred speculation about the possibility of pre-Columbian European contact. Catlin believed the Mandan were the "Welsh Indians" of folklore, descendants of Prince Madoc and his followers who emigrated to America from Wales in about 1170. This view was popular at the time but has since been disputed by the bulk of scholarship.[13]

Hjalmar Holand had proposed that interbreeding with Norse survivors might explain the "blond" Indians among the Mandan on the Upper Missouri River,[14] but in a multidisciplinary study of the stone, anthropologist Alice Beck Kehoe dismissed, as "tangential" to the Runestone issue, this and other historical references suggesting pre-Columbian contacts with 'outsiders', such as the Hochunk (Winnebago) story about an ancestral hero "Red Horn" and his encounter with "red-haired giants".[15] Archaeologist Ken Feder has stated that none of the material evidence that would be expected from a Viking presence in and travel through the American Midwest exists.


In 1796 the Mandan were visited by the Welsh explorer John Evans, who was hoping to find proof that their language contained Welsh words. Evans had arrived in St. Louis 2 years prior, and after being imprisoned for a year, was hired by Spanish authorities to lead an expedition to chart the upper Missouri. Evans spent the winter of 179697 with the Mandan but found no evidence of any Welsh influence. In July 1797 he wrote to Dr. Samuel Jones, "Thus having explored and charted the Missurie for 1,800 miles and by my Communications with the Indians this side of the Pacific Ocean from 35 to 49 degrees of Latitude, I am able to inform you that there is no such People as the Welsh Indians."
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Old February 16th, 2013, 08:45 AM   #10
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Murdered perhaps , part of a conspiracy no. I grew up in that area and know someting of the vilolent history of " piracy " on the Mississippi . Outlaw gangs terrorized that area for years . Heavily wooded remote areas harbor violent criminals .
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