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Old April 22nd, 2013, 09:16 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Viperlord View Post
Sure, but that has nothing to do with Hooker's generalship.
I can't agree that Hooker outperformed McPherson - the latter saved the day during the battle of Atlanta, what did Hooker ever do to have topped that?
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 09:21 AM   #232

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I can't agree that Hooker outperformed McPherson - the latter saved the day during the battle of Atlanta, what did Hooker ever do to have topped that?
Hooker and his men did quite well at the Battle of Resaca. Hooker and Schofield also whipped Hood at the Battle of Kolb's Farm. And I don't know that McPherson saved the day; after he got killed, the situation was less than ideal for the Union forces on the field, but Logan rallied them and led them to victory
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 03:55 PM   #233

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Hooker and his men did quite well at the Battle of Resaca. Hooker and Schofield also whipped Hood at the Battle of Kolb's Farm. And I don't know that McPherson saved the day; after he got killed, the situation was less than ideal for the Union forces on the field, but Logan rallied them and led them to victory
A good reason why Logan should have gotten command.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 04:43 PM   #234

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I'll have to give this question some thought myself, but I'll throw it out there for the group's consideration:
Which generals grew into their jobs the most during the war? Whose on-the-job training strikes you as having been particularly effective?

Another thing to consider about how the various commanders might have perceived their colleagues and opponents: many had not only gone to the same school but had worked together in a real war in Mexico.

Mexican War: The Proving Ground for Future American Civil War Generals

Imagine trying to beat someone in battle that you always had trouble bluffing in poker...
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 07:35 PM   #235

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Imagine trying to beat someone in battle that you always had trouble bluffing in poker..
Ironically, I can come up with a very close example, though it's oddly counter-intuitive. James Longstreet was an avid and skilled card player, and would often invite his buddy Sam Grant to join in. Apparently Grant had little skill at playing cards, despite Longstreet's efforts to teach him. Also, when John Bell Hood assumed command of the Army of Tennessee, he had two classmates among Sherman's field commanders, John Schofield and Oliver Howard. They both told him what to expect from Hood.

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Which generals grew into their jobs the most during the war?
Not surprisingly, I'll put forth the name of U.S. Grant. Compare the man who was surprised at Donelson and Shiloh, and whose army suffered from communication and staff errors at the latter, to the man who ran the nearly flawless military machine that took Vicksburg, routed Bragg's army from a virtually impregnable position at Chattanooga, and slipped his entire army of 100,000 across the largest pontoon bridge in the world in a grand strategic turning maneuver that utterly deceived his opponent, the capable Robert E. Lee, who was specifically worried about the possibility of Grant crossing the James.

I'll also put forth the name of Horatio Wright. With relatively little experience commanding his division in the field in combat, he got thrust unexpectedly into the role of VI Corps commander, replacing the beloved John Sedgwick, and had a horrifying baptism of fire at Spotsylvania Court House. His performance in his earliest engagements was uneven, but he rapidly grew into the role and steadily got better. He was a engineer who started out as your fairly stereotypical capable but cautious Army of the Potomac officer; by the end of 1864, having observed the examples of Grant and Sheridan, Wright had become a fairly aggressive leader who accomplished the rare feat of winning the total confidence of Philip Sheridan. Shortly before Third Petersburg, even Grant was impressed with Wright's confidence. It was his men who broke through the Boydton Line, and it was his men who ran down Ewell and smashed him along Sailor's Creek.

Last edited by Viperlord; April 22nd, 2013 at 07:50 PM.
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 05:08 PM   #236

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Ironically, I can come up with a very close example, though it's oddly counter-intuitive. James Longstreet was an avid and skilled card player, and would often invite his buddy Sam Grant to join in. Apparently Grant had little skill at playing cards, despite Longstreet's efforts to teach him. Also, when John Bell Hood assumed command of the Army of Tennessee, he had two classmates among Sherman's field commanders, John Schofield and Oliver Howard. They both told him what to expect from Hood.

Not surprisingly, I'll put forth the name of U.S. Grant. Compare the man who was surprised at Donelson and Shiloh, and whose army suffered from communication and staff errors at the latter, to the man who ran the nearly flawless military machine that took Vicksburg, routed Bragg's army from a virtually impregnable position at Chattanooga, and slipped his entire army of 100,000 across the largest pontoon bridge in the world in a grand strategic turning maneuver that utterly deceived his opponent, the capable Robert E. Lee, who was specifically worried about the possibility of Grant crossing the James.

I'll also put forth the name of Horatio Wright. With relatively little experience commanding his division in the field in combat, he got thrust unexpectedly into the role of VI Corps commander, replacing the beloved John Sedgwick, and had a horrifying baptism of fire at Spotsylvania Court House. His performance in his earliest engagements was uneven, but he rapidly grew into the role and steadily got better. He was a engineer who started out as your fairly stereotypical capable but cautious Army of the Potomac officer; by the end of 1864, having observed the examples of Grant and Sheridan, Wright had become a fairly aggressive leader who accomplished the rare feat of winning the total confidence of Philip Sheridan. Shortly before Third Petersburg, even Grant was impressed with Wright's confidence. It was his men who broke through the Boydton Line, and it was his men who ran down Ewell and smashed him along Sailor's Creek.
I agree!
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Old April 24th, 2013, 04:18 AM   #237

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As for Wright, I think he and the other late war corps commanders of the AotP, Parke, Humphreys and Griffin, kind'a get lost in the shuffle as do Gibbon and Weitzel, the corps commanders of the AotJ.

These were the guys that were in on the kill in the East and under them the eastern armies were aggressive and up the hard marching and fighting of the last campaigns. Once finally hitting on all (or most) cylinders the eastern Federal armies were very impressive.

It seems Humphreys and Gibbon are most famous for their work at Gettysburg. And Gibbon also for his command of the Iron Brigade. And for getting whipped by the Nez Perce.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 05:07 AM   #238

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As for Wright, I think he and the other late war corps commanders of the AotP, Parke, Humphreys and Griffin, kind'a get lost in the shuffle as do Gibbon and Weitzel, the corps commanders of the AotJ.

These were the guys that were in on the kill in the East and under them the eastern armies were aggressive and up the hard marching and fighting of the last campaigns. Once finally hitting on all (or most) cylinders the eastern Federal armies were very impressive.

It seems Humphreys and Gibbon are most famous for their work at Gettysburg. And Gibbon also for his command of the Iron Brigade. And for getting whipped by the Nez Perce.
I'd hardly say Gibbon was whipped. The Battle of the Big Hole was a draw, and Gibbon's men were left in command of the battlefield after inflicting not inconsiderable damage to the Nez Perce. But anyway, I agree entirely with the larger point.
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Old April 24th, 2013, 06:33 PM   #239

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Originally Posted by Viperlord View Post
Ironically, I can come up with a very close example, though it's oddly counter-intuitive. James Longstreet was an avid and skilled card player, and would often invite his buddy Sam Grant to join in. Apparently Grant had little skill at playing cards, despite Longstreet's efforts to teach him. Also, when John Bell Hood assumed command of the Army of Tennessee, he had two classmates among Sherman's field commanders, John Schofield and Oliver Howard. They both told him what to expect from Hood.
Was that the "I once saw Hood bet $2500 with nary a pair in his hand" story?
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Old April 25th, 2013, 06:03 PM   #240

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Was that the "I once saw Hood bet $2500 with nary a pair in his hand" story?
That one has the ring of being apocryphal, but Sherman definitely was warned that Hood would be more aggressive than Johnston.
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