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Old August 21st, 2013, 05:35 AM   #351

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This reminds me of the book by David Barton, “Jefferson Lies” that was recently pulled of the market by its publisher for its gross inaccuracies.
Not exactly. Yes, it was pulled from the shleves, I have the book, have read it and he marks and points all manner of sites and has evidence of his writings. He doesn't make up anything. The
big six inch brown log on the ground that some smelt and didn't like was, he
wrote what they didn't agree with.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 05:43 AM   #352

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Getting Jefferson Right now available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble

An entire ebook devoted to fact checking Barton exists.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 06:13 AM   #353

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It clouds it because I do not think it worth discussing... and therefore gets in the way of that which I believe is worthy of discussing.

I do not think that it is 100% true
To discuss it as though it is 100% true ... is a rediculous waste of time.

Trust me...
I believe that more than any founder, Jefferson has been treated as a GOD...and should completely and utterly NOT BE

therefore... If I thought it worthy to pile on ... I most certainly would.
If you believe that Jefferson has been deified and that this misconception needs to be corrected, then discussion of the Thomas-Jefferson-Sally Hemings relationship is one of the best ways of correcting this misconception. It’s an excellent way of showing that Thomas Jefferson was subject to human desires and did not always live up to the standards that others, or even the standards Jefferson advocated.

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I am not a Jefferson fan at all...
I seriously think our nation prospered in spite of him

But Sally Hemings is not a reason that is worthy of basing any Thomas Jefferson opinions on.

a) it is not 100 % fact
b) it clouds all serious discussion about him
c) and if it was true it by no means creates a Jefferson that is any better or worse than the one I aleady knew
A) If we require 100% proof then we cannot discuss anything about history. The available evidence, which I feel is beyond a reasonable doubt, shows that Thomas Jefferson was the father of all of Sally Hemings children.
B) This is a false assumption, since serious discussion can be had on the relationship itself, how much of Thomas Jefferson’s behavior was typical for his times, and the way period sources about the relationship were treated by later historians.
C) Not all people have the same view of Jefferson that you do.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 06:54 AM   #354

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If you believe that Jefferson has been deified and that this misconception needs to be corrected, then discussion of the Thomas-Jefferson-Sally Hemings relationship is one of the best ways of correcting this misconception. It’s an excellent way of showing that Thomas Jefferson was subject to human desires and did not always live up to the standards that others, or even the standards Jefferson advocated.



A) If we require 100% proof then we cannot discuss anything about history. The available evidence, which I feel is beyond a reasonable doubt, shows that Thomas Jefferson was the father of all of Sally Hemings children.
B) This is a false assumption, since serious discussion can be had on the relationship itself, how much of Thomas Jefferson’s behavior was typical for his times, and the way period sources about the relationship were treated by later historians.
C) Not all people have the same view of Jefferson that you do.
My opinion of Thomas Jefferson is so low, without the TJ F'd a slave discussion, that I simply believe that it's a distraction.

This thread is called 6 shocking facts about Jefferson...
What a cliche' that Sally Hemmings would come up...
I am shocked !!

start a new thread about typical slave/master sex behavior and go at it ... I'll pass

Not everyone has the same opinion of Jefferson that I do ?
(let me write that gem down)

Last edited by Alexander H; August 21st, 2013 at 06:59 AM.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 07:12 AM   #355

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiver View Post
If you believe that Jefferson has been deified and that this misconception needs to be corrected, then discussion of the Thomas-Jefferson-Sally Hemings relationship is one of the best ways of correcting this misconception. It’s an excellent way of showing that Thomas Jefferson was subject to human desires and did not always live up to the standards that others, or even the standards Jefferson advocated.
If I truely believe that our country prosperred IN SPITE OF Thomas Jefferson...
and that he represents a deviation of American politics that I detest...
Why would I want everone to focus on whether he had sex with Sally Hemmings ?

It sucks (to me) that his attacks on Marshall and the Supreme court are not as tittilating as him doing a slave
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Old August 21st, 2013, 09:20 AM   #356

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander H View Post
If I truely believe that our country prosperred IN SPITE OF Thomas Jefferson...
and that he represents a deviation of American politics that I detest...
Why would I want everone to focus on whether he had sex with Sally Hemmings ?

It sucks (to me) that his attacks on Marshall and the Supreme court are not as tittilating as him doing a slave
Dang man, you're as sharp as a Bowie knife and a Klingon sword.
Click the image to open in full size.
Jefferson''s mental wrestling with his cousin and Federalist John Marshall,
is far more page worthy and thought provoking and informative, with
concrete facts than guess work and finger pointing.
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Old September 16th, 2013, 03:24 PM   #357
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Dang man, you're as sharp as a Bowie knife and a Klingon sword.
Click the image to open in full size.
Jefferson''s mental wrestling with his cousin and Federalist John Marshall,
is far more page worthy and thought provoking and informative, with
concrete facts than guess work and finger pointing.
It's too bad they don't touch on this subject much in the history books.
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Old September 16th, 2013, 04:29 PM   #358

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this a wonderful book
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/The-Failure-Founding-Fathers-Presidential/dp/0674023951/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379377751&sr=8-1&keywords=failure+of+the+founding+fathers"]The Failure of the Founding Fathers: Jefferson, Marshall, and the Rise of Presidential Democracy: Bruce Ackerman: 9780674023956: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51xabRh4%2BkL.@@AMEPARAM@@51xabRh4%2BkL[/ame]
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Old September 16th, 2013, 05:50 PM   #359

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I have this book, and can always prove it if called upon.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 07:02 AM   #360

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander H View Post
If I truely believe that our country prosperred IN SPITE OF Thomas Jefferson...
and that he represents a deviation of American politics that I detest...
Why would I want everone to focus on whether he had sex with Sally Hemmings ?

It sucks (to me) that his attacks on Marshall and the Supreme court are not as tittilating as him doing a slave
For starters it addresses the notion of the 'sterling character' of that two-faced backbiting weasel.
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