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Old March 5th, 2013, 05:18 PM   #1

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The unbelievable story of Pat Sutherland and her research


This is really two topics in one, but I really don't know any other way to present it. I will separate the two topics and you can choose to read on if you want.

First, the main story.

The findings of Pat Sutherland's "Helluland" research on Baffin Island are finally starting to be made public. A story first broke in 2008 or 2009 in Canadian Geographic that a research team led by Pat Sutherland had discovered a second Viking site in North America (the first being L'Anse-aux-Meadows in Newfoundland).

There wasn't much information out there, and the story was still rather obscure. All I could find was this crappy picture of the site which didn't show much:

Click the image to open in full size.

Well out of curiosity I decided to check up on the story again, and it turns out in late 2012 lots more information started coming out. More information about the site, more research, more discussion, more pictures, etc. It's all come bursting out in the last few months.

You can read about it here:
Evidence of Viking Outpost Found in Canada

Interview with CBC Radio (sort of the "TLDR" version):
http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/featur...ng-researcher/

Sutherland seems to be pretty confident the artifacts (including stone ruins, woven yarn, and whetstones) are Norse as opposed to native. This is a huge discovery for two reasons. First, it sheds light on the extent of Norse exploration in North America, which we could only speculate on before. Second, the Baffin Island site dates to the 14th century, which contradicts the widely held belief that the Vikings disappeared from Greenland and North America by then (for comparison, the site at L'Anse-aux-Meadows, thought to be "Hop" or "Leifsbudir" from the Vinland sagas, dates to c. 1000).

New pics:

Click the image to open in full size.

Quote:
Unearthing what she believes to be a Viking outpost, archaeologist Patricia Sutherland (in orange jacket) and her colleagues work in Baffin Island’s Tanfield Valley, which offered turf for sod shelters and a harbor for ships.
Click the image to open in full size.

Quote:
On Baffin Island, archaeologists discovered cordage made the Viking way, as well as other evidence of European contact.
Click the image to open in full size.

Quote:
On the shore of Baffin Island, Tanfield Valley would have offered Viking seafarers a natural harbor, turf and stone for building materials, and fresh water for drinking. The Dorset people lived here in a settlement that today is called Nanook (its ruins are to the right of the white and yellow tents). Archaeological evidence suggests that Vikings built a base camp for hunting and trading.
Click the image to open in full size.

Quote:
Did Vikings use these notched sticks to record trade transactions? Patricia Sutherland thinks so.
Click the image to open in full size.

Quote:
Whetstones discovered on Baffin Island and at other sites in the Canadian Arctic bear clear evidence of Viking technology. Wear grooves harbor traces of bronze, brass, and smelted iron—materials made by Viking metalsmiths but unknown among the Arctic's native inhabitants.
Here is Pat hard at work:

Click the image to open in full size.

There's many more pics of the site out there if you search for them.

================================================

This amazing news has been marred by news that Sutherland was fired from her post as curator of Arctic archeology at the Canadian Museum of Civilization and her husband was stripped of his emeritus status. There are rumors that she was fired because her findings were not consistent with a certain historical narrative the Canadian government wants to tell.

Read more about that here:
Ottawa researcher?s firing derails Viking project

Last edited by pnoozi; March 5th, 2013 at 05:44 PM.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 07:12 PM   #2

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That is very interesting. Very odd about her being fired.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 07:21 PM   #3

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wow... not only an exciting site but high drama as well.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 09:03 PM   #4
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That is very interesting. Very odd about her being fired.
Sounds like typical bureaucrats. Maybe they should fire the museum managers.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 09:22 PM   #5

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This is very interesting. Is the Canadian government afraid of sovereignty claims from Denmark or Norway, hence the need to shut down this research?
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Old March 6th, 2013, 08:39 PM   #6

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Originally Posted by Belgarion View Post
This is very interesting. Is the Canadian government afraid of sovereignty claims from Denmark or Norway, hence the need to shut down this research?
I'm not very familiar with Canadian politics but there are rumors that the Conservative government is trying to tell a more Anglo-centric version of Canadian history. Sutherland and her husband seem to be bound to some kind of NDA, so nobody really knows.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 09:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pnoozi View Post
I'm not very familiar with Canadian politics but there are rumors that the Conservative government is trying to tell a more Anglo-centric version of Canadian history. Sutherland and her husband seem to be bound to some kind of NDA, so nobody really knows.
I'll take the reasons for her firing, and her findings with a pinch of salt for now. Its worth noting that the rumours you suggest are in fact a statement by this Professors working colleague, TV Director Andrew Gregg:

"Gregg suggests Sutherland’s dismissal may be linked to the museum’s impending transformation into the Canadian Museum of History. “It’s a complete shift in ideology,” he says. “The narrative that’s coming out through this government and our institutions has no room for a new story about the Norse.”

Its also worth noting that two unnamed sources accuse this sacked Professor of bullying. Right now the story is a pissing contest between two camps, each spinning there own line.
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Old March 31st, 2013, 11:30 AM   #8

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pnoozi
were not consistent with a certain historical narrative the Canadian government wants to tell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackydee
I'll take the reasons for her firing, and her findings with a pinch of salt for now
leaving "history" to the "governments" and their "historians" is like leaving the library of alexander to the priesthood -- the "old" guard is raising their "ugly" heads --

the question I pose is --- "Is it better to just accept the findings as is and go with the flow OR go ahead and fire famous and well-documented researchers and then suffer the consequences later"

my take --- these two people will find an incredible audience of book buying people who will believe that the gov't is out of line and harboring a "lie" and it will be another issue of "gov"t suppression". guess who will lose ---

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....history isn't what you have been taught............... Scott Wolter, America Unearthed
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Old March 31st, 2013, 12:02 PM   #9

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Whatever the reasons for the acrimony, I can't see a Norse outpost that had no effect on later settlements being, in itself, a source of political problems. Surely no one believes that the Newfoundland site is the only Norse site.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 01:01 PM   #10
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Angry English Cover up and erase history


... a statement by this Professors working colleague, TV Director Andrew Gregg:

"Gregg suggests Sutherland’s dismissal may be linked to the museum’s impending transformation into the Canadian Museum of History. “It’s a complete shift in ideology,” he says. “The narrative that’s coming out through this government and our institutions has no room for a new story about the Norse.

So who in the Canadian Government and which Canadian institutions are allowing no room for a new story about the Norse?

In fact the story is not new. The oldest North American history was created 660 years ago. It is now Online as LENAPE LAND.

The fact that Canadian and English institutions "have no room" for anything but their story is traditional English behavior for 405 years! When you show me any text about the five year war of extermination in any middle or high school text book, I will recant my statement.

Who is responsible?
My Christinaux friend, who is called a Cree, wants to know.
My Illini friend, whose ancestors lived on the River of the Divine, but whose tribe ceased to exist by treaty, wants to know.

About a million Norse Christians ceased caring long ago. They died before they reached old age.

This English tradition has caused a profound distortion in Early American History.

I recommend we find the persons who are the sources of this tradition and put them before the public.

WHO in the Canadian Government is that person?

WHICH Canadian Institutions are involved? WHO heads those Institutions?

Last edited by Myron; July 4th, 2013 at 01:05 PM.
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