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Old March 29th, 2013, 08:34 AM   #201
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Isn't it? It's almost like she can't justify her opinion with facts or reasoning, and thus rather cowardly hides behind a dead man's, who isn't around to contradict her.
Oh c'mon, you are worse than I am - you have never said anything bad about Grant, except his choice of Sheridan.
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Old March 29th, 2013, 08:42 AM   #202

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Oh c'mon, you are worse than I am - you have never said anything bad about Grant, except his choice of Sheridan.
That alone means I'm more critical of Grant than you are of Lee. But I've repeatedly, and I believe publicly, faulted Grant for not using more personal management at Cold Harbor and the Crater, and for his selection of Baldy Smith and Q.A. Gilmore to work with Ben Butler, and for getting surprised at Shiloh, and for the second assault on Vicksburg. And of course, when I praise Grant, I have been known to use legitimate sources and moderately-well-constructed arguments on occasion. Whereas all you can do is take something out of context from Wikipedia, and extrapolate complete nonsense from it, or spew out apocryphal stories.
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Old March 29th, 2013, 09:11 AM   #203

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Best Confederate generals:

1. Robert E. Lee (He was just awesome)

2. Thomas Stonewall Jackson (The first Manassas, the second Manssas, the Valley campaign, Chancellorsville, enough said)

3. Nathan Forrest (Brice's Creek, the capture of Fort Pillow, etc.)

4. James Longstreet (He was an awesome subordinate and Lee's most trusted general)

5.Albert Sydney Johnston (Unmatched bravery, Shiloh)

6. PGT Beauregard (The first Manassas, Shiloh, the battle of Corinth)

7. Joe Johnston (Managed to put a hell of a fight vs Sherman before that moron Hood replaced him)

8. Jeb Stuart (Awesome cavalry man, too bad Sheridan killed him in Yellow Tavern)

9. Wade Hampton (Awesome replacement after Stuart's demise)

10. Richard Ewell (Second Manassas)
You know, for all her claims that the CSA's generals were awesome, it's really, really telling that the 7th-best CSA general, according to Stefany herself, was a 5, a completely average commander at best.
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Old March 29th, 2013, 09:13 AM   #204
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You know, for all her claims that the CSA's generals were awesome, it's really, really telling that the 7th-best CSA general, according to Stefany herself, was a 5, a completely average commander at best.
That doesn't count, I rated Joe Johnston a 5 for the Atlanta campaign, but overall he was way above that number...
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Old March 29th, 2013, 09:18 AM   #205

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That doesn't count, I rated Joe Johnston a 5 for the Atlanta campaign, but overall he was way above that number...
But when did he do better than he did in the Atlanta Campaign? He disgracefully fiddled while Vicksburg burned, and did much the same as Atlanta on the Peninsula, retreated and preserved his army while accomplishing nothing against the enemy. He earns a special place of dishonor on Gary Gallagher's list of overrated Civil War officers. (Gallagher is a big fan of Lee incidentally.) http://www.historynet.com/the-war-li...r-officers.htm

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Old March 29th, 2013, 09:27 AM   #206

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Also Stefany, I believe you have yet to post your worst list?
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Old March 29th, 2013, 01:50 PM   #207
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That alone means I'm more critical of Grant than you are of Lee. But I've repeatedly, and I believe publicly, faulted Grant for not using more personal management at Cold Harbor and the Crater, and for his selection of Baldy Smith and Q.A. Gilmore to work with Ben Butler, and for getting surprised at Shiloh, and for the second assault on Vicksburg. And of course, when I praise Grant, I have been known to use legitimate sources and moderately-well-constructed arguments on occasion. Whereas all you can do is take something out of context from Wikipedia, and extrapolate complete nonsense from it, or spew out apocryphal stories.
So you believe that Grant has faulted at 7 things while I believe Lee had been wrong 3 times in his whole career. Yeah, I have to admit you are more critical to Grant than I am to Lee...

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But when did he do better than he did in the Atlanta Campaign? He disgracefully fiddled while Vicksburg burned, and did much the same as Atlanta on the Peninsula, retreated and preserved his army while accomplishing nothing against the enemy. He earns a special place of dishonor on Gary Gallagher's list of overrated Civil War officers. (Gallagher is a big fan of Lee incidentally.) The War List: Overrated Civil War Officers
I give Joe Johnston a lot of credit mainly because he was one of the "first generals" so to say of the Confederacy and was leading one of the first battles, and the Confederacy was most vulnerable at its birth, like every newborn nation and yet he managed to achieve victories. He was leading the troops at the first Manassas and won the first major battle ever fought between the Union and the Confederacy, even tho I know that he chose to defer to Beauregard since the latter knew the terrain more, like you said. But that also give Joe Johnston honor points since he was the senior in rank, he let PGT lead most the army, and didn't play God instead...

Also, I believe he did quite well during against McClellan, at the battle of Seven Pines, he even inflicted more casualties, even tho the battle turned out to be inconclusive. And it wasn't his fault he got wounded, really...

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Also Stefany, I believe you have yet to post your worst list?
I know, but I find it difficult to compose my list of worst Confederate generals since I believe most of them were really good. I only know the John Bell Hood will take the first place. God, how I detest that guy...
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Old March 29th, 2013, 01:54 PM   #208

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Also, I believe he did quite well during against McClellan, at the battle of Seven Pines, he even inflicted more casualties, even tho the battle turned out to be inconclusive. And it wasn't his fault he got wounded, really...
That's incorrect. The Confederates took more losses. Battle Summary: Seven Pines, VA

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I give Joe Johnston a lot of credit mainly because he was one of the "first generals" so to say of the Confederacy and was leading one of the first battles
He wasn't leading. He let Beauregard lead, so he gets no credit for a battle he had nearly nothing to do with. And that's far outweighed by the fact he didn't even lift a finger to try and save Vicksburg. Nothing you said alters the fact that Johnston's record was entirely unremarkable and marked mainly by failure.

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Also Stefany, I believe you have yet to post your worst list?
I know, but I find it difficult to compose my list of worst Confederate generals since I believe most of them were really good. I only know the John Bell Hood will take the first place. God, how I detest that guy...
So how were any of the Confederate generals I listed good? The fact is, other than Lee and his immediate subordinates, most of the high-ranking Confederate generals were actually quite awful. I found it difficult to come up with a best list for the Confederates really.

Edit: I misremembered, I did not list PGT on my list, but the worthy A.P. Stewart instead.

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Old March 29th, 2013, 02:01 PM   #209

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So to clarify Stefany, how about choosing the worst from some of this rogue's gallery?


1. Gideon Pillow
2. Leonidas Polk
3. Sterling Price
4. Earl Van Dorn
5. Theophilius Holmes
6. George Crittenden
7. Felix Zollicoffer
8. Joseph Wheeler
9. John B. Floyd
10. John Hunt Morgan
11. William L. "Mudwall" Jackson. (Stonewall's cousin, incidentally.)

As well as the likes of Hood, Pemberton, Bragg, etc. As well as A.S. Johnston, who failed strategically on every level.

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Old March 29th, 2013, 02:16 PM   #210
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So to clarify Stefany, how about choosing the worst from some of this rogue's gallery?


1. Gideon Pillow
2. Leonidas Polk
3. Sterling Price
4. Earl Van Dorn
5. Theophilius Holmes
6. George Crittenden
7. Felix Zollicoffer
8. Joseph Wheeler
9. John B. Floyd
10. John Hunt Morgan
11. William L. "Mudwall" Jackson. (Stonewall's cousin, incidentally.)

As well as the likes of Hood, Pemberton, Bragg, etc. As well as A.S. Johnston, who failed strategically on every level.
Wheeler was not bad, he was mediocre, like we discussed, so he doesn't deserve to be in the worst list, but yet again, neither does he deserve the best list. He must be in the "mediocre" list

Pillow pushed Grant at Belmont, so I would cut him some slack.

About Morgan - How about Morgan's raid? 1000 miles are not a piece of cake...

And you are really playing with the fire here - you know that Albert Sydney Johnston is one of my favorite Confederate generals...
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