War of 1812 a 'forgotten war' - Page 2 - Historum

**MrStoff1989** · October 17th, 2006, 06:30 PM

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Originally Posted by Vir0n

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Originally Posted by Dr Realism

Actually, for me, the War of 1812 and the Barbary Wars, are the most interesting wars to read about.

I agree. I recently had a conversation with one of my family members about this, and I could not convince her that I wasn't making the War of 1812 up.

My favorite story from the Barbary Wars was the burning of the US frigate Philadelphia by Stephen Decatur. The ship ran aground and was surrendered. Decatur covertly destroyed the captured ship in a move that British Admiral Horatio Nelson described as "the most bold and daring act of the age."

For anyone interested, there is a recently published book called The Pirate Coast: Thomas Jefferson, the First Marines, and the Secret Mission of 1805 by Richard Zacks that discusses the events surrounding the First Barbary War. It is one of my favorites.

This also brings up a good point that the average american is a bit lapsed in their own history, Many don't know who Thomas Jefferson really was even. Or they think that the Monroe Doctorine is a doctor named Monroe.

Breth · October 18th, 2006, 09:38 AM

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Originally Posted by MrStoff1989

This also brings up a good point that the average american is a bit lapsed in their own history, Many don't know who Thomas Jefferson really was even. Or they think that the Monroe Doctorine is a doctor named Monroe.

Was TJ a libertarian/agarian and was Monroe the president who elected the judges the night before? or was Monroe the man who sued for his job.

Wait, the are both related ... TJ was the President at this time wasn't he?

Gosh my minds like a switch board in a not similar way.

Nick · October 18th, 2006, 10:05 AM

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Originally Posted by celtman

It is a terrible shame that the history of the War of 1812 has always been met with disinterest and apathy by most Americans. We are eager to read up on the most obscure Civil War material, as well as a fair amount on the history of the Revolution, yet the average American has probably less than a general knowledge of the War of 1812, yet for many of us, especially in the midwest, the war was fought in our very backyards and decided the future of the Old Northwest and Canada, not to mention the dreary outcomes it spelled for the American Indians east of the Mississippi. The war itself has a fascinating history of great deeds and terrible blunders. It was certainly not America's best wartime showing and perhaps that is why it is often left forgotten. Our Canadian neighbors remember it as a defining moment in their history. Many Americans fought and died in this war and it shaped a generation of Americans and their future leaders (Andrew Jackson, William Henry Harrison, Winfield Scott, Zachary Taylor, and Davy Crockett just to name a few). It seems to me that it deserves better than it gets...maybe what we need is a good War of 1812 movie!

It could be 1812 is forgotten because it was inconclusive. Britain failed to recapture America and the US failed to take Canada.

Vir0n · October 18th, 2006, 03:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Nick

It could be 1812 is forgotten because it was inconclusive. Britain failed to recapture America and the US failed to take Canada.

As usual, I must take the role as cynic in this discussion. Your make an excellent point. However, I must ask what does it take to actually capture the interest of the public? The average American has the same amount of apathy for the Mexican-American War or Spanish-American War as they do for the War of 1812. WWI isn't that big of an exception. These are important events, but stated simply, most people just don't care.

I think celtman had an excellent idea with the War of 1812 movie. People know about Marcus Aurelius because of Gladiator. They know about Achilles because of Brad Pitt and William Wallace because of Mel Gibson. What better than a battle between Russell Crow and George Clooney to spark interest in otherwise completely forgotten events in history?

Dr Realism · October 18th, 2006, 03:43 PM

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Originally Posted by Breth

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Originally Posted by MrStoff1989

This also brings up a good point that the average american is a bit lapsed in their own history, Many don't know who Thomas Jefferson really was even. Or they think that the Monroe Doctorine is a doctor named Monroe.

Was TJ a libertarian/agarian and was Monroe the president who elected the judges the night before? or was Monroe the man who sued for his job.

Wait, the are both related ... TJ was the President at this time wasn't he?

Gosh my minds like a switch board in a not similar way.

I think perhaps what you are refering to is the case of Marbury vs Madison. The night before John Adams(2nd President of US) handed over power to (3rd President, TJ), he appointed several judges and officials who were loyal to the Federalist Party. Madison was Sec of State under Jefferson, so Jefferson told him not to allow those men to be appointed. I forget the details but in the end, John Marshal(first Chief Justice) said that the whole thing was unconstitutional, and his desicion ensured that the Judiciary branch would be equal to the other two branches of Government.
You may wonder, why was the Secretary of State involved in Judicial appointments? Why is the Sec of State called a Sec of State and not Secretary of Foreign Affairs? Simple. When our country was founded, we didn't really think we were going to have much of a foreign policy. We didn't really want to deal with Europe, other than trade. So the Sec of State wasn't really much of a foreign affairs position. It was more like being, the President's right hand man and literally handling the affairs of the internal State of the US. Or at least, that's how I see it.

Cunedda · November 4th, 2006, 10:19 PM

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Originally Posted by Commander

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Originally Posted by Ritocal

Americans don't like to talk about the time the Canadians kicked our butts.

Sad but true, we only talk about wars where America seems glorified.

I'm not sure a movie would work so well in this scenerio because people would not want to see us be defeated, unless the movie depicted a certain battle in which America was victorious.

What about New Orleans? You handed us our asses in that battle.

**Belisarius** · November 5th, 2006, 01:37 PM

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Originally Posted by Cunedda

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Originally Posted by Commander

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Originally Posted by Ritocal

Americans don't like to talk about the time the Canadians kicked our butts.

Sad but true, we only talk about wars where America seems glorified.

I'm not sure a movie would work so well in this scenerio because people would not want to see us be defeated, unless the movie depicted a certain battle in which America was victorious.

What about New Orleans? You handed us our asses in that battle.

The war was over when this was fought so it doesn't count.

Cunedda · November 5th, 2006, 01:44 PM

Technicly yes...but that battle was included into the war eventhough they didn't hear about the peace treaty until weeks after.

Dr Realism · November 5th, 2006, 07:52 PM

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Originally Posted by Belisarius

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Originally Posted by Cunedda

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Originally Posted by Commander

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Originally Posted by Ritocal

Americans don't like to talk about the time the Canadians kicked our butts.

Sad but true, we only talk about wars where America seems glorified.

I'm not sure a movie would work so well in this scenerio because people would not want to see us be defeated, unless the movie depicted a certain battle in which America was victorious.

What about New Orleans? You handed us our asses in that battle.

The war was over when this was fought so it doesn't count.

I think it would have counted if the British had won. I don't think they would be inclined to give New Orleans back to the US without some serious compensation, and if the British refused to return it, I'm sure the war would start all over again.

Vir0n · November 6th, 2006, 05:53 PM

I'm not sure how many points it was worth, but the Battle of New Orleans counted in my book. The combatants did not know that the peace treaty had been signed. If we are going to debate technicalities, I would argue that the treaty wasn't ratified at the time of the battle, so the war wasn't officially over. Even if you don't buy this argument, the simple fact that the battle occured is a fact and it should therefor count (towards what I still don't know).