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View Poll Results: U.S. Civil War: Whose Side Are You On?
The Union/United States of America 100 66.67%
The Confederacy/Confederate States of America 32 21.33%
Neither 18 12.00%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 29th, 2014, 04:28 PM   #1

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U.S. Civil War: Whose Side Are You On?


As for me, I am on the Union side due to me absolutely detesting slavery and also detesting the Confederacy's apparent hypocrisy in regards to secession (they didn't give Confederate states the right to secede). (For the record, though, I myself am ideally not opposed to secession, at least generally.)
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Old December 29th, 2014, 09:16 PM   #2
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As a native Virginian, I would hope I would remain loyal to the Union.

Last edited by newhandle; December 29th, 2014 at 09:23 PM.
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Old December 29th, 2014, 10:19 PM   #3
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The Confederacy-- absolutely. Lincoln was a tyrant who was willing to destroy the Union in order to save it, many of his actions were illegal (his suspension of habeus corpus, his trial of Clement Vallandigham, his arrest of the entire Maryland legislature, his interference in free elections in Kentucky, his interference with the state legislature of Indiana, & many other examples), & the Confederacy was defending exactly the same principles that were outlined in the Declaration of Independence & the Constitution.

Slavery is a side-issue. Lincoln didn't use it as a reason for the war 'til the war was half over, & then only as a ploy to prevent the intervention of England &/or France. He obstructed the theatre commander who tried to free the slaves of Missouri in 1861. Even his Emancipation Proclamation didn't free a single slave in Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia, Kentucky, or Missouri-- the slave states that were under his jurisdiction. He merely pretended to free the slaves in the South, which was not under his control. Phony nonsense. There were many black slaveowners. The Confederacy had blacks under arms long before the Union did, and even had racially integrated military units.

Most of what people think they know about the Civil War is Unionist propaganda. The Confederacy was fighting for its freedom-- which granted, didn't include blacks. But Lincoln himself, in his 1st election campaign, stated his belief that slavery was an institution whose days were numbered, & that it could & should be ended, in his words, "insensibly". It certainly shouldn't have taken the sacrifice of an entire generation of men to accomplish.

Not that that was even its purpose. It wasn't.
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Old December 29th, 2014, 10:21 PM   #4

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graehame View Post
The Confederacy-- absolutely. Lincoln was a tyrant who was willing to destroy the Union in order to save it, many of his actions were illegal (his suspension of habeus corpus, his trial of Clement Vallandigham, his arrest of the entire Maryland legislature, his interference in free elections in Kentucky, his interference with the state legislature of Indiana, & many other examples), & the Confederacy was defending exactly the same principles that were outlined in the Declaration of Independence & the Constitution.

Slavery is a side-issue. Lincoln didn't use it as a reason for the war 'til the war was half over, & then only as a ploy to prevent the intervention of England &/or France. He obstructed the theatre commander who tried to free the slaves of Missouri in 1861. Even his Emancipation Proclamation didn't free a single slave in Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia, Kentucky, or Missouri-- the slave states that were under his jurisdiction. He merely pretended to free the slaves in the South, which was not under his control. Phony nonsense. There were many black slaveowners. The Confederacy had blacks under arms long before the Union did, and even had racially integrated military units.

Most of what people think they know about the Civil War is Unionist propaganda. The Confederacy was fighting for its freedom-- which granted, didn't include blacks. But Lincoln himself, in his 1st election campaign, stated his belief that slavery was an institution whose days were numbered, & that it could & should be ended, in his words, "insensibly". It certainly shouldn't have taken the sacrifice of an entire generation of men to accomplish.

Not that that was even its purpose. It wasn't.
Are you for real?
This discussion has been had many times before on this forum. It's getting tiresome now.

The "tyrant" Lincoln didn't go to war. The Confederacy opened hostilities. As a matter of fact, Lincoln tried to steer away from war as long as possible.

As for slavery:
How can slavery be a side-issue since it was a potential abolishment of slavery that caused the CSA to secede?
Note that I said potential, as Lincoln wasn't planning to outlaw slavery (and he didn't say he was planning to do it either: he was an advocate of a gradual disappearance of slavery).

The "freedom" the Confederacy fought for was "the freedom to keep slaves". So again, not a side-issue.

As for the Emancipation proclamation being used to keep Europe out of the war? Lincoln wanted to proclamate it earlier, but he needed a Union victory in order to be able to do this without backlash. Considering Antietam was sort of a victory, it was the ideal occasion.

AS for the OP, considering my acidic backlash at Graehame, my affiliation should be pretty clear

Last edited by Vintersorg; December 29th, 2014 at 10:32 PM.
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Old December 29th, 2014, 11:01 PM   #5
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I'm not sure how to vote on this one. I don't agree with many of Lincoln's and I support states rights over the power of the federal government. On the other hand, I couldn't imagine owning a slave or supporting those who do. If I was living at the time though, I'm sure I would feel differently about slavery and would most likely support the Confederacy due to my geographical location (Texas) and my support of states rights. For the record though, I didn't vote in the poll as I have no clue how to vote on this issue. Yes I know, taking the easy way out.
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Old December 29th, 2014, 11:18 PM   #6

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist View Post
As for me, I am on the Union side due to me absolutely detesting slavery and also detesting the Confederacy's apparent hypocrisy in regards to secession (they didn't give Confederate states the right to secede). (For the record, though, I myself am ideally not opposed to secession, at least generally.)
You detest slavery yet you would support the union? Those are two very contradicting beliefs.
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Old December 29th, 2014, 11:20 PM   #7

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Originally Posted by Sage Celestine View Post
You detest slavery yet you would support the union? Those are two very contradicting beliefs.
I think you're confusing the Union with the Confederacy there.

The northern states formed the Union and were generally opposed to slavery.
The southern states formed the Confederacy and were pro-slavery.

Of course, in reality it was more complicated than that, but it's a good simplified guideline
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Old December 29th, 2014, 11:56 PM   #8

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Originally Posted by Vintersorg View Post
I think you're confusing the Union with the Confederacy there.

The northern states formed the Union and were generally opposed to slavery.
The southern states formed the Confederacy and were pro-slavery.

Of course, in reality it was more complicated than that, but it's a good simplified guideline
How big the plantations are today, where many will work for wages that they can barely live off of, and that's just in the first world countries, these plantations extend to the poorest countries and 'pay' them much much less. But I can see how one can easily mistake not being a slave, just because they can choose which plantation they work at.
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Old December 30th, 2014, 12:03 AM   #9

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage Celestine View Post
How big the plantations are today, where many will work for wages that they can barely live off of, and that's just in the first world countries, these plantations extend to the poorest countries and 'pay' them much much less. But I can see how one can easily mistake not being a slave, just because they can choose which plantation they work at.
Corporate tycoons cheating their workers today have nothing to do with slavery and the American Civil War.
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Old December 30th, 2014, 12:04 AM   #10

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage Celestine View Post
How big the plantations are today, where many will work for wages that they can barely live off of, and that's just in the first world countries, these plantations extend to the poorest countries and 'pay' them much much less. But I can see how one can easily mistake not being a slave, just because they can choose which plantation they work at.
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