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Old September 12th, 2016, 07:29 AM   #101

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Originally Posted by Spartacuss View Post
"I told the stupid son-of-a-bitch not to go down there."- Dwight Eisenhower.

It was MacArthur who ordered the burning of the shanty town. It was MacArthur who ordered Eisenhower to coordinate prisoner turnover to the civilian authorities. It was MacArthur who ordered troops across the river to attack the shanty town in Virginia in direct violation of a Presidential order. It was MacArthur who ignored the message, once again, to not cross the river. It was MacArthur who ordered Eisenhower to write a report on the incident favorable to himself. This was sure as hell MacArthur's show.
Wrong on several counts.

As I noted in an earlier post, MacArthur never knowingly violated orders from the President. No fewer than three reliable independent witnesses confirm that George Moseley prevented both messages from the White House from reaching MacArthur. Eisenhower in his account confirms this: MacArthur never knew that Hoover had sent orders for him not to cross the river.

The notion that MacArthur ordered the burning of the shanty town is pure myth. The most reliable accounts are clear that the fires were set by the marchers themselves in a final gesture of defiance as they evacuated the camp. In fact, MacArthur pulled his troops back at the entrance of the encampment, and left the job of its final clearance to the D.C. police, who were under the control of police chief Glassford.
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Old September 12th, 2016, 07:38 AM   #102

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No one is beyond reproach, but Mac was very deeply flawed, greatly impressed with himself, not sure the Deity was any better than him, and only sorry that Japan already had an emperor because he sure would have loved to have that title. The more I read about him, the more I study him, the smaller he becomes. He did a few good things and a lot of really bad things.He was a megalomaniac of the first magnitude.
I would argue that MacArthur's command of the occupation of Japan (for which he merits consideration as the 'Indispensable Man') alone, outweighs every negative aspect from the rest of his career. And even excluding the 1945-1950 period, there were a great deal of positives to balance the negatives.

I'm curious to know - which sources caused you to hold such a vituperatively negative view of him?
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Old September 12th, 2016, 08:10 AM   #103

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What were we "ding" in the Philippines?
originally, they were coaling stations. (Pacific Outpost: American Strategy in Guam and Micronesia By Earl Spencer Pomeroy). When ships first started using coal, they could only carry so much and needed strategically placed areas where they could refuel. They were also a result of the Spanish-American war.
Command History | Commander, U.S. Pacific Fleet


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The Spanish-American War of 1898 resulted in further expansion of American naval power in the Pacific. Commodore George Dewey led America's Asiatic Squadron into Manila Bay for the first engagement of the war, on May 1, 1898. It was here that Commodore Dewey issued the famous order, “You may fire when you are ready, Gridley.” When the battle ended seven hours later, eight Spanish warships had been destroyed. This decisive victory left the United States in possession of former Spanish territory in the Philippines and the Mariana Islands. More importantly, it established the United States as a major maritime power.
whatever one may think of MacArthur, it was important from a long term and immediate military value that there be someone to manage control and defend American interests in this area of the world.

later, their value as both strategic bases and sources of oil were important
Petroleum and Sea Power - American Oil & Gas Historical Society

one also has to consider that the range of aircraft at the start of WWII required airstrips for refuelling and military control of such strips was a strategic issue.

Last edited by Lowell2; September 12th, 2016 at 08:12 AM.
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Old September 14th, 2016, 03:39 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by DIVUS IVLIVS View Post
Not at all. It's good to see an interesting topic like this get revived.



Correct. The actual retreat to Bataan, when it came, was quite superbly conducted, and was one of the better bits of generalship in MacArthur's career. But it came too late to save the bulk of the supplies, which had to be abandoned or destroyed because they couldn't be moved in time.
I have read, both in William Manchester's American Caesar and in Spector's
Eagle Against the Sun that the food and medical supplies let behind were done so at MacArthur's order, because it was against Filipino law to move them from one province to another without the government's permission. Those supplies, had they been moved to Bataan, would have enabled our forces to hold out for months, and perhaps a year, longer.
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Old September 20th, 2016, 08:33 PM   #105

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Thomas Stonewall Jackson is under rated not over rated. How dare you ! Your assertion just shows you know nothing about Thomas Jackson.
Your assertion shows a highly questionable grasp of the historiography of the Civil War if you think Jackson has been underrated.
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Old September 21st, 2016, 09:16 PM   #106

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Learned tonight that MacArthur and Eisenhower were both opposed to dropping the A bombs on Japan.
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Old September 22nd, 2016, 04:14 AM   #107
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Your assertion shows a highly questionable grasp of the historiography of the Civil War if you think Jackson has been underrated.
It's a new phase of historians. Teaching us to question everything and anything. For his part Jackson is held up by some as part god part general and that perhaps is overrated.

He is still superb general in my opinion. Sorry for the off topic comments Mods.
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Old September 22nd, 2016, 04:39 AM   #108

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It's a new phase of historians. Teaching us to question everything and anything. For his part Jackson is held up by some as part god part general and that perhaps is overrated.

He is still superb general in my opinion. Sorry for the off topic comments Mods.
Do not be sorry!
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Old September 22nd, 2016, 04:45 AM   #109

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Your assertion shows a highly questionable grasp of the historiography of the Civil War if you think Jackson has been underrated.
My assertion shows no highly questionable grasp of the historiography of the war of northern invasion.

If Jackson isn't given his due across the board then something is amiss in the historiography.
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Old September 22nd, 2016, 05:20 AM   #110

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I'll start a new topic for the Jackson discussion.
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