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Old March 23rd, 2017, 09:11 AM   #121

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Originally Posted by phil1904 View Post
Sorry but i consider Mac Arthur as a sort of mediatic clown of the american military legend .
He was a very bad tactician and strategist.
He was ridiculous in the Philippines campaign in 1942, he was nicknamed by his soldiers "double hidden".
He left his soldiers alone preserving his image trough the famous "i'll come back"
I think he was a very carrierist general with a very, very big ego of spoilt little boy (by his mother).
It's very surprising that he wasn't fired afer such a disaster werehas he was warned after Pearl Harbor .
How to explain Air force deployement by december the 8 1941? how to justify his behaviour? (no respects of orders)....
Do please expand on this.
PI in 1941 was a difficult position for the US, what better options did the US have?
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Old April 16th, 2017, 06:45 AM   #122
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1898 Spanish-American war. The Philippine leader, Jose Rizal was remembered in Hawai'i and celebrated on New Year's eve. Most recent big celebration, December 31, 1978. Kekaha, Kaua'i. The program was for all people who had parents or grandparents, from the Philippines and that moved to Hawai'i prior to 1946 or in 1887 in Hawai'i under the monarchy. If they were ever here working then under the King of Hawai'i, King David Kalakaua.
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Old April 16th, 2017, 07:02 AM   #123
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General MacAuthur was well known in WWII, helping the Philippines against the Japanese brutal attacks in 1941. So, Japan attacked Hawai'i then too on December 7, 1941. Many filopinos remember general MacAuthur and his role in backing up the Philippines against the Japanese.
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Old April 16th, 2017, 08:00 AM   #124

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Originally Posted by warriorcommander View Post
General MacAuthur was well known in WWII, helping the Philippines against the Japanese brutal attacks in 1941. So, Japan attacked Hawai'i then too on December 7, 1941. Many filopinos remember general MacAuthur and his role in backing up the Philippines against the Japanese.
Admittedly, though, by MacArthur's own self promotion. And Japan didn't attack the Philippines until AFTER Pearl Harbor... and in the end, MacArthur's defense of the islands was catastrophically stupid. He had neither the men nor the material to fight the Japanese on every foot of ground of the Philippine Islands. And with the US Pacific Fleet sunk at Pearl Harbor, he had no realistic hope of additional supplies and men being brought to him. In this, his best course of action would have been to turtle up on Bataan and Corregidor from the beginning and force the Japanese to attack him on a narrow front that they couldn't outflank. In history, he didn't move here until after his forces had been overrun elsewhere on Luzon and he lost most if not all of his supplies.

The only thing that would really "save" MacArthur is that the situation was not one that could really be turned into an American victory. The Japanese controlled the waters around the Philippine Islands and could easily resupply and reinforce their troops, which MacArthur couldn't do. In that, America was probably doomed to defeat in the defense of the Philippines in 1941 to 1942 regardless of what they did, but given how history turned out without supplies in forcing the Japanese into a relatively harder fight that would be expected from the numerical situation... it would be safe to say that it would have taken the Japanese longer to secure the Philippine Islands and cost them greater casualties trying to besiege US forces on Bataan had they had their supplies and been dug in there.

And in this, if Japan is spending the first half of 1942 besieging Bataan, while naval actions might not be curtailed, it's likely that many of the Japanese Army's moves would be delayed or stopped until the Philippines could be cleared... leaving Port Moresby safe from immediate threat and putting Australia in a stronger position by the time the Japanese do complete the capture of the Philippines. So, a change in action on MacArthur's part may not save the Philippines from capture, but it just might still change the course of the war elsewhere.

And in the end, while MacArthur would "make up" for his failures in the defense of the Philippines, it should probably be noted that in most cases, officers that got beaten as badly as MacArthur did in the defense of the Philippines didn't get the chance to make up for it. Take for example Admiral Husband E. Kimmel, the commander at Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. Now, while Kimmel's responsibility for the damage taken probably isn't as great as many might be lead to believe... and certainly not as great as MacArthur's for the failures in the defense of the Philippines... Kimmel was forced to take the blame for Pearl Harbor, was demoted from a full Admiral (4 stars) to a Rear Admiral (2 stars), was charged with dereliction of duty and forced to retire by 1942, and he never served again. Most officers don't get a second chance after taking the sort of defeat that the US took in 1941-1942... And in that, MacArthur was ultimately very lucky.
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Old April 15th, 2018, 12:19 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by DIVUS IVLIVS View Post
MacArthur's delusions about his future political prospects are irrelevant to the fact that he was right to advocate so forcefully for liberating the Philippines. That country was worth a lot more to us than Formosa (which is where we would have gone if the Philippines campaign had never taken place). And for the most part, Mac did a good job of conducting the campaign when it was entrusted to him.
Taking Manila was an outrageously costly operation, resulting in the leveling of a good part of the city of Manila. Mac couldn’t have predicted this as apparently the IJA had decided to declare Manila an “open city”. The IJN’s admiral on the ground thought otherwise and was instrumental in causing the catastrophe. Still, from a logistical point of view and from the standpoint of defeating Japan, the US could as easily have waited and bypassed the Philippines and defeated Japan before taking the surrender of Japanese forces in the Philippines. It was a matter of months and yes, I do think MacArthur’s ego had everything to do with it.
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Old April 22nd, 2018, 08:14 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by royal744 View Post
Taking Manila was an outrageously costly operation, resulting in the leveling of a good part of the city of Manila. Mac couldn’t have predicted this as apparently the IJA had decided to declare Manila an “open city”. The IJN’s admiral on the ground thought otherwise and was instrumental in causing the catastrophe. Still, from a logistical point of view and from the standpoint of defeating Japan, the US could as easily have waited and bypassed the Philippines and defeated Japan before taking the surrender of Japanese forces in the Philippines. It was a matter of months and yes, I do think MacArthur’s ego had everything to do with it.
Had the US forces invaded Japan instead of liberating the Philippines first, they would have to go through a costly struggle just considering by the blood shed at Iwo Jima.

Also, liberating the Philippines 1st was a strategic move since the Philippines lied in between Japan and their source of oil and supplies in Indonesia as well as being a way station to most of their army stationed at the south.

The Philippines was so important to the Japanese that they gathered most of their forces to maintain sway over it. That's why the largest naval battle in history, the Battle of Leyte gulf occurred in Philippine waters.

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Old April 23rd, 2018, 05:27 PM   #127

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Originally Posted by royal744 View Post
Taking Manila was an outrageously costly operation, resulting in the leveling of a good part of the city of Manila. Mac couldn’t have predicted this as apparently the IJA had decided to declare Manila an “open city”. The IJN’s admiral on the ground thought otherwise and was instrumental in causing the catastrophe. Still, from a logistical point of view and from the standpoint of defeating Japan, the US could as easily have waited and bypassed the Philippines and defeated Japan before taking the surrender of Japanese forces in the Philippines. It was a matter of months

and yes, I do think MacArthur’s ego had everything to do with it.
Emphasized section is the most important part of the quote.
Absolutely ZERO evidence offered for this assertion.

Earlier in this thread, evidence WAS provided that ALL the PTO
commanders favored invading at least some of the Philippines.

I would be very interested if there is EVIDENCE contradicting
that. But sorry, random opinions do NOT cut it in historical discussions.
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Old April 29th, 2018, 12:24 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by betgo View Post
1) Disobeys orders attacking bonus marchers, 2) Mishandles defense of the Philippines, 3) Pushes for invasion of the Philippines, and 4) Provokes China to enter Korean War.

He was brilliant, well-connected, and had a flare for showmanship, but it is hard to understand how he was allowed to make so many mistakes. Or do you disagree they were mistakes?
It was allowed because it was all for political reasons. He had a high civilian popularity rate. Its as simple as that. Read the excellent book: The Frozen Chosen--and it will help explain much.
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Old April 30th, 2018, 07:41 AM   #129
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Learned tonight that MacArthur and Eisenhower were both opposed to dropping the A bombs on Japan.
I recently read in Marching Orders, by Bruce Lee, that Eisenhower was against using the bomb on Japan for moral reasons, as were a great many others.. MacArthur was against using it because he wanted to lead the largest invasion in world history. In Hasting's book, Armageddon, he tells how, while all the other casualty estimates ran in the hundreds of 1000's, even millions, MacArthur insisted that there would be no more than 31,000 American casualties. He really did not care how many bodies he had to stand on to achieve that pinnacle.
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Old April 30th, 2018, 07:45 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by SOTG View Post
Emphasized section is the most important part of the quote.
Absolutely ZERO evidence offered for this assertion.

Earlier in this thread, evidence WAS provided that ALL the PTO
commanders favored invading at least some of the Philippines.

I would be very interested if there is EVIDENCE contradicting
that. But sorry, random opinions do NOT cut it in historical discussions.
The Navy wanted to invade Taiwan, not The PI. After Manila was taken MacArthur pretty much ignored what went on in the rest of The Philippines. Quezon giving MacArthur $500,000 in gold when he abandoned Corregidor had more to do with his desire to return than anything else. He was paid to do it.
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