Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > American History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

American History American History Forum - United States, Canada, Mexico, Central and South America


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 3rd, 2015, 10:26 AM   #1

Robert165's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2010
From: North Georgia
Posts: 3,758
Pueblo or Apache.... location of tribe question


I am working on a personal project, making a web page of the colonies and territories of the USA. Right now I am gathering information and compiling maps, graphs, timelines, etc. I have a question about the Native American tribes in/around Santa Fe New mexico circa 1600. Santa Fe was the first city settled in the (what would become) continental 48, west of the Mississippi. I think that is Pueblo territory, and the Navajo is to the south, right?

Here is a map of the tribes
Here is a map of New Mexico, Santa Fe
Robert165 is offline  
Remove Ads
Old November 3rd, 2015, 10:56 AM   #2
Historian
 
Joined: Dec 2014
From: Spain
Posts: 5,358

A Spanish Map (year 1717) about Nuevo México-Utah etc

Click the image to open in full size.

Lago Timpanogos is today Utah Lake. And Lago Salado (Salt Lake). You can see the name of the indians tribes and their land (but Spanish names of the tribes).
martin76 is offline  
Old November 3rd, 2015, 11:03 AM   #3

Robert165's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2010
From: North Georgia
Posts: 3,758

Quote:
Originally Posted by martin76 View Post
A Spanish Map (year 1717) about Nuevo México-Utah etc

Click the image to open in full size.

Lago Timpanogos is today Utah Lake. And Lago Salado (Salt Lake). You can see the name of the indians tribes and their land (but Spanish names of the tribes).
ok thanks
Robert165 is offline  
Old November 3rd, 2015, 06:50 PM   #4
Archivist
 
Joined: Oct 2015
From: Chicago
Posts: 238

pretty cool

Last edited by RemGrade; November 3rd, 2015 at 06:57 PM.
RemGrade is offline  
Old November 5th, 2015, 01:00 AM   #5

johnincornwall's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Nov 2010
From: Cornwall
Posts: 6,001

As I understand it the naturally warlike Apache, Commanche and Navajo migrated or were pushed southward from the area around the Canadian border, and therefore came to pressurise the more peaceful farming communities of the Pueblo Indians etc. I dont think this was too long before the area became part of the Spanish Empire, tribes and all.
johnincornwall is offline  
Old November 5th, 2015, 06:44 AM   #6

Asherman's Avatar
Moderator
 
Joined: May 2013
From: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 2,701
Blog Entries: 34

1. The Pueblo People. There are today 19 Pueblos in New Mexico scattered along the Rio Grand and its watershed. They are (in no particular order): Chochiti, Jemez, Isleta, Nambi, Ohkaye Ouinga, Picuris, Pojoaqui, Sandia, San Fillipi, San Ildefonso, Santa Clara, Santa Ana, Santo Domingo, Taos, Tesqui, and Zia.

A second group of Pueblos extend westward, and is made up of the Laguna, the Acoma, Zuni and Hopi located in NE Arizona. There are five Pueblo languages, but they are all related languages.

The Pueblo People are agricultural as opposed to the hunter/gatherer/raiding cultures of other tribal groups in the American Soutwest. Descent is believed by anthropologists to be from settled tribes in the Mesa Verde area of Colorado. Principle crops are/were corn, beans, and squash. That's fine if you live where there is an abundant and reliable source of water, like the Rio Grand. The further West a Pueblo is, the drier the climate and the less reliable the rainfall.

There is a link between climate and Pueblo cultures. Very dry places like the Hopi Mesas tend to be very conservative, and have a highly developed set of rituals, rites, and ceremonies designed to insure the life giving rain. In Hopi and Zuni we find the strongest expressions of the Kachina Cult existing in the Kivas. As the difficulty in growing sufficient crops increases the more expressive and desirable generally are crafts production. Hopi pottery, for instance, is the most desirable and expensive. Acoma, located also atop a mesa, has flooded the market for Pueblo pottery for years. Those Pueblos with fertile soil and good irrigation, are better known for their gambling casinos than for pottery, silver or fabric works.

The Pueblos had trading routes extending far down into Mexico, and were influenced by Mexican culture. All of the Pueblos have been targeted over the centuries by raiders and invaders, so they have developed a strong defensive attitude to the world.

When the Spaniards arrived looking for wealth in the late 16th century, they quickly became dominant. The Pueblos were forcefully converted to Catholicism, and were reduced to peonage working for brutal Masters. The Pueblos put up with it for a while, but in the late 17th century they rose up and drove the Spanish out of New Mexico. The leader of the Pueblo Revolt was Pope' who remains today a hero to most of New Mexico. The priests and officials up in Santa Fe took the hardest blows, and many were killed in the revolt. Once the Spanish surrendered they were permitted to go down river and back into Mexico with little harassment. Arguably, the Pueblo Revolt was the most successful Native American campaign to halt European settlement. It was successful, but only for a short time. Within 50 years the Spanish were back in force, but they had learned not to abuse their Pueblo neighbors. Pueblos were overwhelmingly nominally Catholic while retaining their religious roots and culture more privately.

When New Mexico became a territory of the U.S. in 1848, the Pueblos welcomed the change, because in truth very little changed beyond exchanging one flag for another.

2. The Apache People. The Apache are Athabaskan speakers who came into the Southwest between the 12th and 14th centuries. As raiders, the Apache were formed into bands and sub-groups who tended to dominate the regions where they settled. Apache bands could be found as far North as Colorado and Southern Utah, and as far south as the Sierra Madres in Mexico. Apaches made life difficult between the middle of Texas to the Colorado River. They, as late comers, fought and raided the tribes already on the land and weren't popular neighbors for anyone.

The number of Apache groups is too large and scattered for me to list here easily. The best known of course, are those bands that have been mythologized by Hollywood and Western fiction. From my part of the country the primary band was the Chiricahua who weren't finally defeated and exiled to Florida's swamps until the late 19th century. The southern Apache groups had already been engaged on a very dirty war with Mexico for a hundred years before Anglos began traveling the Santa Fe Trail. That is only a small part of Apache who raided in Texas, Nothern and Western Arizona among other places.

One doesn't usually think of the Navajo as Apache, but they are and they were a royal pain in the butt to the Pueblos and the new New Mexicans. They were rounded up by a man they had trusted and adopted, Kit Carson. Their time on a make-shift reservation at Rio Redondo is still regarded as a black time for the Navajo. The Navajo also had a Trail of Tears that became legendary when they were moved to their current reservation lands in northern New Mexico and Arizona. Establishment of the new Navajo reservation was on land that had traditionally been Hopi, and the acrimony between the two tribes is still deep and bitter. The Navajo picked up herding, weaving, and silver work from the Pueblos and the Spanish, and they are still masters of those arts. Navajos are tough and they've become one of the most successful in the modern world of all the American Indian groups.
Asherman is offline  
Old November 6th, 2015, 01:38 AM   #7

johnincornwall's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Nov 2010
From: Cornwall
Posts: 6,001

Asherman - you will know.

I seem to remember from my Spanish-in-North-America book, Baderas Lejanas, that the farms the Spanish imposed in some of these areas with their Indian 'subjects' were actually quite well irrigated and 'green'.

After the Spanish left everything turned to dust, whether by climate change or lack of irrigation?
johnincornwall is offline  
Old November 6th, 2015, 02:38 AM   #8
Historian
 
Joined: Dec 2014
From: Spain
Posts: 5,358

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asherman View Post

When the Spaniards arrived looking for wealth in the late 16th century, they quickly became dominant. T
No, the Spaniards didn´t arrive looking for weath to Nuevo Mexico. They arrived to stablish a Colony and to evangelize the indians. In fact, Oñate was not the first Spaniard (or the first Spanish Expedition to Nuevo México).

Quote:
The Pueblos were forcefully converted to Catholicism, and were reduced to peonage working for brutal Masters. The Pueblos put up with it for a while, but in the late 17th century they rose up and drove the Spanish out of New Mexic
Right. In fact, Po Pay or Pope was in a Spanish Prison and the spaniards had the power to kill him in Jail but the governor, Don Juan Francisco Treviño yielded to the pression and he set him free.
The Rebellion begun in the morning August 10, 1680. The indians killed 23 missionaires and 380 Spaniards (mostly civil population, women and children). They took refuge in Santa Fé and in Isleta. The people in Isleta, organized a column and evacuated the village on September 15, they arrived tol El Paso del Norte.
In Santa Fé, the Spaniards repulsed all the indian assaults. The great assault on September 13, left tens of indians killed.Also they failed September 14, 15 and 16 and they attacked with great courage (Jerez, Picuris, Taos). On September 16, it arrived the indians Queres under the command of a Half Spaniard/Half Indian (Alonso de Catiti whose brother was a Spanish soldier fougth in Santa Fe against the Indians, Don Pedro Márquez). The indians were 2.500. On September 25, the Governor, Don Antonio de Otermín, executed the 47 indians prisioners captured during the battle and organized a column and broke the siege. The Spanish column arrived to El Paso and Santa Fe was destroyed by the Indians.

Quote:
Within 50 years the Spanish were back in force,
not my friend. The Spaniards retook Santa Fé on September 14, 1692, exactly 12 years later, under the Don Diego de Vargas´ command and The indians tribes rebels had to kneel down before the portrait of the Catholick King, Charles II. The tribes had to recognize the Catholick King´sovereignty and they had to become catholic again. (Pope died in 1688 and so he escaped to his certain execution by High Treason to his King.
There was another rebellion in 1696 but it was very easy put out. At early XVIII Century, the new Bourbon King, Philiip V, banned the Encomiendas and accepted Indians had their own religions and any indian was obliged to be Catholic. The War with Apaches continued for generations. Sometimes, Apaches destroyed a Spanish Ranch or village and sometimes, Spaniards destroyed an Apache Camp (eye by eye).
martin76 is offline  
Old November 6th, 2015, 03:00 AM   #9
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2010
From: -
Posts: 17,473

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
I am working on a personal project, making a web page of the colonies and territories of the USA. Right now I am gathering information and compiling maps, graphs, timelines, etc. I have a question about the Native American tribes in/around Santa Fe New mexico circa 1600. Santa Fe was the first city settled in the (what would become) continental 48, west of the Mississippi. I think that is Pueblo territory, and the Navajo is to the south, right?

Here is a map of the tribes
Here is a map of New Mexico, Santa Fe
The map of the tribes is widely correct. If I start with the Rio Grande, then from the border to the Caballo reservoir lived the Mansos. The on the left bank till Albuquerque the Piros and on the right bank the Tompiros from Albuquerque till the Pueblos the Tompiros. West of Albuquerque tiwards the Zuni Mts. lived the Acomas and Zuni. The navahos lived around the recent town of Farminton.
The Apache lived in several groups south of the puebl, west of the Rio Grande, between the Rio Grande and the Pecos and in the plains. The Apaches who attacked the pueblos were the querecho and teyas. But it is not absolutely clear, whether they really were Apaches or Caddo e.g. Several experts see them as ancestors of Lipan, llaneros and Jicarilla.
Benavides later mentioned as well the Xila-Apaches west of the Rio Grande. The Navaho were already mentioned as skilled farmers. Another group are the Vaquero who hunted Bisons. The Mescalero possibly appeared under the name Siete rios.
beorna is offline  
Old November 6th, 2015, 04:36 AM   #10

mark87's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2014
From: Santiago de Chile
Posts: 1,913
Blog Entries: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnincornwall View Post
Asherman - you will know.

I seem to remember from my Spanish-in-North-America book, Baderas Lejanas, that the farms the Spanish imposed in some of these areas with their Indian 'subjects' were actually quite well irrigated and 'green'.

After the Spanish left everything turned to dust, whether by climate change or lack of irrigation?
If I may interject, right now reading partly about that area in the years before the gold rush to colorado, the new mexico farms areas mantained a lot of their irrigation so as to sell their surplus agricultural products to the front range white settlers starting in 1859 onwards (from pueblos in new mexico) however there was definetly a long decade of droughts in those preceeding years (1840's-1850s') that may have given the idea of everything turning to dust, it was widspread drought to most of the high plains and the mountain west of the years.
mark87 is offline  
Reply

  Historum > World History Forum > American History

Tags
apache, location, pueblo, tribe



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The most interesting location historumy General History 25 March 11th, 2014 06:01 PM
Location Pio European History 2 December 15th, 2011 11:27 AM
The Apache Kid unclefred American History 6 April 24th, 2011 02:46 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.