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Old January 15th, 2010, 04:43 AM   #1
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The Hyksos -- historical reality or myth?


http://touregypt.net/featurestories/hyksos.htm
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Old January 15th, 2010, 04:48 AM   #2
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Re: The Hyksos -- historical reality or myth?


[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos"]Hyksos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
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Old January 15th, 2010, 04:50 AM   #3
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Re: The Hyksos -- historical reality or myth?


http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/279251/Hyksos
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Old January 15th, 2010, 05:48 AM   #4
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Re: The Hyksos -- historical reality or myth?


Hyksos is an inacurate but convenient word to design the Egyptians of the Delta at the time of the XV dyn. There is no lack of inacurate names in egyptology which come from early egyptologists, to-day one used them by tradition. Most egyptologists are not historians and too often reproduced past books without checking their sources. These three links are no exception; they are however interresting for who know nothing at all about this topic.

I already gave some answers on this thread. http://www.historum.com/showthread.p...ghlight=Hyksos Here under some quotes :
Quote:
Originally Posted by barlier View Post
At an egyptologists congress in 1991 G.Heinsohn gave the following list of hypothesis about the Hyksos :

* Bédouins arabes [several writers]
* -1st millennium Phoenicians [Newton 1728; Illig 1992, 111]
* only the invention of a narrator [Uhlemann, 1858]
* Indo Aryans [Meyker, 1928 {1952-58}]
* Hittites [Procksch, 1914; Pieper 1925]
* 15th century BCE Biblical Amalekites [Velikovsky, 1952]
* The United Kingdom of Israel from Saul to Solomon [Sieff 1988; Chetwynd 1991]
* Old-Babylonian Amorites [Van Seters 1966]
* Hurrites [Watzinger 1933; Helck 1971]
* Mycenaeans [Dayton 1978]
* Syro-Canaanites [Weinstein 1981; Kempinsky 1985; Dever 1985; Mazar 1990]
* Anciens Akkadiens [Heinsohn 1991]

The word Hyksos is found only once in Flavius Joseph (Contra Apion), where is tell a story from the imagination of Manetho..
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Originally Posted by barlier View Post
If "good shepperd" has been used with some Egyptian kings, "shepherd king" has neither been used by so called Hyksos (ie : Kings of the XVth dynasty) nor any kings of any dynasties. "shepherd king" is a construction of Flavius Joseph who knew next to nothing to egyptian history.
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The best book for the history and the meaning of heqa khasut is David Lorton The juridical terminology of international relations in egyptian texts, Johns Hopkins University
Heqa Khasout means "ruler over the hill countries". As Lorton put it : "it would be ridiculous for kings who assumed the Egyptian royal titulary to refer to themselves as foreigners.

In the SIP, the three main kings (Avaris [XV dyn.], Thebes [XVII dyn.], Kush) called themselves Heqa. None of them were sheperd kings. The Thebes and Kush areas are covered with hills and the Avaris king was their overlord, therefore calling himself Heqa Khasout makes sense.
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According to Flavius Joseph who coined the word Hycsos in Against Apion: "This whole nation was styled Hycsos, that is, shepherd-kings ; for the first [part] styled Hyc, according to the sacred dialect, denotes a king, as is sos, a shepherd; but this according to the ordinary dialect; and of these is compounded Hycsos: but some say that these people were Arabians."
Years ago I published an article in french (Les « Grands » Hyksos étaient-ils des étrangers?) with the following bibliography :

ASSMANN Jan, The Mind of Egypt, Metropolitan
CHABAS François, Les Pasteurs en Egypte
GOEDICKE Hans, Studies about Kamose and Ahmose
HEINSOHN Gunnar, 6th International Congress of Egyptology,
JOSEPHE Flavius, Contra Apion
LORTON David, The juridical terminology of international relations in egyptian texts
LUBAN Marianne, The Exodus Chronicles
MARIETTE Auguste, Revue Archéologique 3ème année, vol 5 Les fouilles de Tanis
MASPERO Gaston, Contes populaires
PETRIE W.M. Flinders, Scarabs and Cylinders
PRITCHARD James The Ancient Near East, Vol I,
REDFORD Donald, Pharaonic King-Lists, Annals and Day-Books,
SHAW Ian, The Oxford History of Ancient Egypt
SPALINGER Anthony, War in Ancient Egypt,
VANDERSLEYEN Claude, L’Egypte et la vallée du Nil Tome 2
WADDELL W.G., Manetho,
WEILL Raymond, Journal Asiatique série 10 T.17 Les Hyksos et la Restauration Nationale
WEILL Raymond, Journal Asiatique série 11 T.1 Les Hyksos et la Restauration Nationale
WILKINSON Toby Early Dynastic Egypt
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Old January 15th, 2010, 06:06 AM   #5
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Re: The Hyksos -- historical reality or myth?


Most of the time, if not always, Touregypt, Wikipedia, Britannica and many people website are in the main stream of a particular topic. Articles I wrote were not in main stream egyptology. If moderators agree, I can post as it is (ie in french) my article about Hyksos or you can ask it by MP*; no way I translate it.

* Please give me an email address, the file is too long for this forum.

Last edited by barlier; January 15th, 2010 at 09:45 AM.
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Old January 15th, 2010, 06:37 AM   #6
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Re: The Hyksos -- historical reality or myth?


I am not challenging your authority, barlier. I am not a fit judge.
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Old January 15th, 2010, 07:57 AM   #7
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Re: The Hyksos -- historical reality or myth?


The archaeological site called Tell-el-Daba is very interesting, with its murals looking like those of the Minoans of Crete. Those who find the term Hyksos useful attribute this site, among others, to "them".
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Old January 15th, 2010, 09:25 AM   #8
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Re: The Hyksos -- historical reality or myth?


Quote:
Originally Posted by gaius valerius View Post
I think that's your theory of course. (no need to discuss it here, I know there is a topic about it already).
Here is the place for you to turn positive.
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The archaeological site called Tell-el-Daba is very interesting, with its murals looking like those of the Minoans of Crete. Those who find the term Hyksos useful attribute this site, among others, to "them".
Finding foreign influences in a capital city and around a harbour does not allow to conclude the country is the hand of foreigners. They found poteries/jars coming from Canaan and concluded : these guys were from there, instead of thinking whatever was in the poteries/jars was from Canaan and for some reason the poteries/jars were not returned. [If they look in our compost and at our plates/dishes they will conclude that definitely we are Asians. Since there are objects from all continents obviously the place had been occupied before by various immigrants ]

When a king like Amenhotep III married the Mitannian princess Gilukhipa, she came with over 317 ladies-in-waiting; latter he married her niece who came with over 100 people. My point is that around Egyptian kings there were many foreign persons and it would be foolish to conclude to quickly when digging around the king palace.
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Old January 15th, 2010, 09:34 AM   #9

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Re: The Hyksos -- historical reality or myth?


Interesting information barlier.
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Old January 15th, 2010, 10:05 AM   #10
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Re: The Hyksos -- historical reality or myth?


Is there concrete evidence, barlier, that in ancient Egypt there were the equivalent of the Venetian "fondaco", which comprised import warehouses and living quarters of foreign merchants?
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