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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:10 AM   #141
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I see already that some users here are not for True searches but to cover, dirty true ways of a historical science to please to the rage and envy.
They show to another false road, without being confused at all to break scientific ethics.
I write not for them, I write for not engaged readers who, undoubtedly, have an independent sight at history.So…

Full text of "Sumérien ou accadien?"

A M. CH.-E. DE UJFALVY

DUtBCTBUB DE LÀ RBYUB DE PHILOLOaiE ET D^ETHNOaRAPHIB

Monsieur le Directeur,

Vous avez indiqué, avec autant de bienveillance que de précision,
la position exacte que je prends dans le débat sur le sumérien. Cette
position est d'ailleurs déterminée par mes études datant de vingt ans,
et inspirée par Tamour de la vérité, sans préoccupation aucune, étran-
gère à la science.

Le sumérien est une langue. Parmi les personnes compétentes et
désintéressées, cela ne fait aucun doute. 11 est vrai, les premiers inter-
prètes des textes assyriens, dont moi-môme, ont eu jadis l'opinion
erronée qui consiste dans le contraire de ce qui est aujourd'hui prouvé
pour tout homme sensé.

Le sumérien n'est ni une langue sémitique ni une langue aryenne.
Les preuves que j'en ai données, il y a vingt ans, ont paru notam-
ment à M. Renan inébranlables.

Le sumérien part d'une civilisation septentrionale : celle-ci est tou-
ranienne, elle peut avoir eu des rapports originaires avec les ancêtres
des habitants actuels de l'Asie centrale. Il a, avec les langues altaïques,
de grandes divergences, mais il y existe aussi des points de ralliement.
C'est une question qui est à soumettre à l'examen des érudits spéciaux,
non pas de ceux qui, s'occupant de toutes les matières, tranchent sur
tous les problèmes, mais de ceux qui, sine ira et studio, ne faussent pas
la vérité par des théories préconçues à l'avance.


Sur la plupart de ces points, je suis donc d'accord avec M. Lenor-
mant, et si je crois que mon savant ami pourrait peut-être restreindre
ses comparaisons, je pense aussi qu'il rend des services à la science
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Old November 21st, 2012, 05:07 AM   #142
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“III

LA DYNASTIE DBS ROIS MEDBS.

Mais pourquoi ce nom touranien des Mèdes a-t-il pré-
valu sur celui des Ariens, et pourquoi l'empire puissant et
vainqueur de Ninive a-t-Q pris le nom de médique î

On a cru que les rois mèdes, cités par Hérodote, étaient
des Aryas. Nous prouverons que ces monarques étaient des
Touraniens qui, à cause de leur origine, ont légué à la pos-
térité le souvenir de la domination médique et perpétué
dans l'histoire le nom anarien de leur race. Cette opinion
paraîtra paradoxale et pourrait même être taxée de témé-
raire, si de puissants arguments ne l'établissaient pas.



And here in this citation from great work of Juel Oppert the answer to a question of my UNFAIR opponent from Iran also contains.
As you can see, it is impossible to be engaged in research of classic languages at full tilt and fleetingly, Oppert, unlike the previous researchers doesn't break laws of comparative linguistics and doesn't skip as Roulinson which definition of Oppert names become outdated.
So…



— VIII —

rieures avaient laissé des questions sans réponse,
des problèmes sans solution. La langue n'était pas
fixée, le déchiffrement n'était pas défini, la gram-
maire n'était pas assise sur des bases solides, la
restitution des textes eux-mêmes n'était nullement
complète; enfin l'interprétation n'avait pas toujours
acquis cette sûreté qui la mettait à l'abri de la cri-
tique. Il y a plus, le caractère ethnographique même
de la langue et du peuple mède était encore obscurci
par des données mal comprises.

J'ai restitué à l'idiome, et je crois avec justesse,
l'ancienne appellation de médique employée par
Westergaard et MM. Rawlinson et de Saulcy.

vérité, entrevue dès l'origine, est souvent abandon-
née pour quelque temps. J'aime, à cette occasion, à
reitdre à mes devanciers l'hommage de reconnais-
sance pour tout ce que je leur dois : je continuerai
d'accomplir ce devoir avec d'autant plus de séré-
nité, que j'espère que mes successeurs me ren-
dront à leur tour la même justice. H est vrai que
maintenant la reconnaissance envers les maîtres
se perd de plus en plus ; dans ces nouvelles études,
l'élève qui a peu découvert est souvent l'ennemi
naturel d'un maître plus heureux. Les initiateurs
sont exposés à un système de plagiat organisé, 'et si



— n —

par hasard on se souvient d'eux, ce n'est que pour
instruire le lecteur de leurs erreurs réelles ou présu-
mées. Cette pratique est aussi blâmable que gratuite,
car l'on ne gagne absolument rien à être injuste. Celui
qui est lésé trouve toujours, tôt ou tard, parmi les
élèves de ses successeurs oublieux, un vengeur qui,
en rétablissant les faits, juge avec équité les données
acquises par les premiers travailleurs, et excuse avec
indulgence leurs erreurs.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 01:14 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ki-en-gar from ki-en-gir View Post
I see already that some users here are not for True searches but to cover, dirty true ways of a historical science to please to the rage and envy.
They show to another false road, without being confused at all to break scientific ethics.
I write not for them, I write for not engaged readers who, undoubtedly, have an independent sight at history.So…

Full text of "Sumérien ou accadien?"

A M. CH.-E. DE UJFALVY

DUtBCTBUB DE LÀ RBYUB DE PHILOLOaiE ET D^ETHNOaRAPHIB

Monsieur le Directeur,

Vous avez indiqué, avec autant de bienveillance que de précision,
la position exacte que je prends dans le débat sur le sumérien. Cette
position est d'ailleurs déterminée par mes études datant de vingt ans,
et inspirée par Tamour de la vérité, sans préoccupation aucune, étran-
gère à la science.

Le sumérien est une langue. Parmi les personnes compétentes et
désintéressées, cela ne fait aucun doute. 11 est vrai, les premiers inter-
prètes des textes assyriens, dont moi-môme, ont eu jadis l'opinion
erronée qui consiste dans le contraire de ce qui est aujourd'hui prouvé
pour tout homme sensé.

Le sumérien n'est ni une langue sémitique ni une langue aryenne.
Les preuves que j'en ai données, il y a vingt ans, ont paru notam-
ment à M. Renan inébranlables.

Le sumérien part d'une civilisation septentrionale : celle-ci est tou-
ranienne, elle peut avoir eu des rapports originaires avec les ancêtres
des habitants actuels de l'Asie centrale. Il a, avec les langues altaïques,
de grandes divergences, mais il y existe aussi des points de ralliement.
C'est une question qui est à soumettre à l'examen des érudits spéciaux,
non pas de ceux qui, s'occupant de toutes les matières, tranchent sur
tous les problèmes, mais de ceux qui, sine ira et studio, ne faussent pas
la vérité par des théories préconçues à l'avance.



Sur la plupart de ces points, je suis donc d'accord avec M. Lenor-
mant, et si je crois que mon savant ami pourrait peut-être restreindre
ses comparaisons, je pense aussi qu'il rend des services à la science
Translation:
"TO MR CH.-E. FROM UJFALVY

DUTBCTBUB OF THE RBYUB OF PHILOLOAIE AND D^ETHNOaRAPHIB

Mister Manager,

You pointed out, with so much benevolence as precision,
the precise position which I take in the debate on Sumerian. This
position is besides determined by my studies dating of twenty years,
and inspired by Tamour of the truth, without preoccupation no, étran-
manage in science.

Sumerian is a language. Among the competent persons and
unselfish, it make no doubt. 11 am true, the first inter-
prètes assyriens texts, whose kid I - had opinion formerly
erroneous which consists in the opposite of what is proved today
for every sensible man.

Sumerian is neither a Semitic language nor an Aryan language.
The proof which I gave, twenty years ago, appeared notam-
lies to Mr Renan unshakeable.

Sumerian leaves a northern civilisation: this one is tou-
ranienne, she can have had native reports with the ancestors
current inhabitants of the Central Asia. He has, with languages altaïques,
big divergences, but there are also points of rallying there.

It is a question which is to subject on examination of the special erudite persons,
not of those who, taking care of all subjects, cut on
all problems, but of those that, sine will go and studio, don't distort
the truth by preconceived theories beforehand.

On most these points, I therefore agree with Mr Lenor-
mant, and if I think that my learnt friend could perhaps restrain
his comparisons, I also think that he returns services in science "
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Old November 24th, 2012, 01:23 PM   #144
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Post # 142:

"“III

DYNASTY DBS KINGS MEDBS.

But why this touranien name of Mèdes has meadow
worth on that of Ariens, and why powerful empire and
victor of a-t-Q taken Ninive the name of médique î

They thought that the mèdes kings, named by Hérodote, were
from Aryas. We will prove that these monarches were of
Touraniens who, because of the origin, left to the pos-
térité the memory of domination médique and perpetuated
in history the anarien name of their breed
. This opinion
will seem paradoxical and would be even possible be taxed of témé-
raire, if powerful arguments didn't establish it.“


And here in this quotation from great work of Juel Oppert the answer to has question of my UNFAIR opponent from Iran also contains.
As you can see, it impossible simple percentage to be engaged in research of classic languages at full tilt and fleetingly, Oppert, unlike the previous researchers doesn' t station wagon laws of comparative linguistics and doesn' t skip as Rawlinson which definition Oppert names become outdated.
So …




— VIII —

rieuresinally interpreta had left questions without answer,
problems without solution. The language wasn't
fixed, decoding wasn't defined, the gramme-
mayor isn't sitting down on solid bases,
restitution of very texts was not at all
complete; ftion didn't always have
acquired this safety which put her sheltered from shouting
tick.
There is more, ethnographic character
of the language and the people mède were still made dark
by misunderstood data.

I restored to idiom, and I believe with correctness,
the ancient appellation médique used by
Westergaard and MM. Rawlinson and from Saulcy.
the truth, foreseen originally, is often abandonment
born for some time. I like, at this occasion, in
reitdre to my precursors homage of admit
sance for all what I owe them: I will go on
to fulfil this duty with all the more of séré-
nité, that I hope that my successors to me ren-
dront in their turn the same justice. H am true that
now recognition towards the masters
gets lost more and more; in these new studies,
the pupil who not much discovered is often the enemy
natural of a happier master. The originators
are displayed to a system of organised plagiarism, 'and yes



— n —

incidentally they remember them, it is only for
teach the reader of their real errors or présu-
mées. This practice is as censurable as free,
because nothing is absolutely earned to be unfair. That
who is wronged always find, sooner or later, among
pupils of his forgetful successors, an avenger who,
by restoring facts, judge with equity data
acquired by the first workers, and excuse with
forgiveness their errors."

Last edited by ki-en-gar from ki-en-gir; November 24th, 2012 at 02:06 PM.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 09:54 PM   #145

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I don't think historians claim that Sumerians spoke an Indo-European or Semitic language but that doesn't mean they spoke a Turkic language. If they did speak a Turkic language, then it seems odd to say that it is the same as specifically Tatar, and not a proto-Turkic language. What is the hatred of Iran here? Do Iranians claim that the Sumerians were Iranian? And how does this fit in with the idea that the Sumerians created ancient civilization? This French scholar doesn't really give information as to why he thinks the Sumerians were Touranian, just that he says they were.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 01:06 PM   #146
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Could the Sumerians be related to the IVC (Indus Valley Civilzation) people?
We don't know what the IVC people spoke either, and we know both civilizations had commercial trade.

Has anyone looked into the possibility that the Sumerian langugage could be related to Dravadian languages, as some have speculated for the IVC?
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Old November 26th, 2012, 03:06 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart Dale View Post
Could the Sumerians be related to the IVC (Indus Valley Civilzation) people?
We don't know what the IVC people spoke either, and we know both civilizations had commercial trade.

Has anyone looked into the possibility that the Sumerian langugage could be related to Dravadian languages, as some have speculated for the IVC?
I answer your first question:
Civilizations of city-states of Harapp and Mokhendzho-Daro investigated complex American scientific expeditions from 20th years of 20th centuries till our time. The scientific conclusions by results of these annual expeditions, Americans represented on pages of the scientific American magazine at the beginning of the 1990th years. Conclusions were such: Founders of Harapp and Mokhendzho-Daro were Sumerian, with sumerian a protocuneiform writing, with sumerian eposes on plates, for example, with the epos about Gilgamesh (Bilgamesh).There were sumerian cylindrical stamps-cliches from jewels were found, which were used as printing house, for text and pictury drawing by cylinder rolling according to the crude clay plate. The city of Harappa was founded by sumerian 7000 years ago, Americans determined by kraniologian materials that inhabitants of these two city-states had the same East European haplogroups which had sumerian in Mesopotamia.
You”ll, of course, ask:
"And what hаplоgrоups had Sumeriаn in Mesopotamia?"
And I”ll answer:
Sumeriаn 7500-8000 years ago had 70% hаplоgrоup R1a1 with subclades and 30% hаplоgrоup R1b with subclades.The result was received in El-Ubeid.In the capital of Sumer, in the city UR the ratio was slightly different, but there was again a combination of R1a1 and R1b.

Last edited by ki-en-gar from ki-en-gir; November 26th, 2012 at 03:26 PM.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 05:33 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart Dale View Post
Could the Sumerians be related to the IVC (Indus Valley Civilzation) people?
We don't know what the IVC people spoke either, and we know both civilizations had commercial trade.

Has anyone looked into the possibility that the Sumerian langugage could be related to Dravadian languages, as some have speculated for the IVC?
I will try to answer and your second question: Dravidian languages are lineal descendants of a Sanskrit. But carriers of Sanskrit language were more black than the most black Africans, moreover, dravidian were a haplogroups H and L carriers. The most ancient carriers of Old Persian language too were blackening even, than modern Africans. You can see confirmation to it on mosaics on walls of ruins of Persepolis. And Old Persian language is more Semitic language, than other. There is an example with the whole offer in Old Persian language:
If it is interesting to someone, I can write a transliteration of words from a breast of this mumifical "companion".Words were written on the Persian option of a cuneiform writing. I assume in connection with presented information that Persians came to the south Mesopotamia together or after Kushitian.
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Old November 27th, 2012, 11:12 AM   #149
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I write my post # 77 one more time with WORKING video.
I ask those who well knows our Sacred Koran to count number of the objects hanging near the Sun contrary to laws of gravitation. I am assured that total number of these objects equally 19. Those who well knows the Al-Koran - will understand of me.The supreme Allah named number of angels equal 19, those angels that limits of Geennа Fiery protect.

The objects :



... r_embedded

In the Sacred Koran the Message was given to peoples, the Sign from the Allah that Giennа Fiery protect 19 Guards.
Let's try to consider etymology of word GIENNA from the point of view of the Tatar language:
Silla GI - in the Tatar language a verb in imperative form Ji = "Collect".
Noun JiEN = "Meeting", "Concourse".JiENA = "to Gathers"
Fiery Jienna="Fiery Concourse", "Fiery Meeting".
Let's try to return to actually Sumer sillabic signs:
Ki="Hot". EN="Brother". Hot Brother="Sun" - from "brotherhood" of planets of solar system.
On Tatar Кii= "Roast". EN="Brother".
Кi-EN=КiN=КЁN=КЕN = the Sun.

So, on the basis of Turkic and Sumer language I have:1)Fiery Gienna ="Fiery Concourse".2) Fiery Gienna = the Sun.

We have found with you the HELL.

Also that mean words from calendar MAIA: the Termination of the fifth Sun. = the Beginning of the New Sun???Or not??? Us - will clean, how not stood test???

Also that mean words from calendar MAIA: the Termination of the fifth Sun. = the Beginning of the New Sun???Or not??? Us - will clean, how not stood test???

Sign J is to read as Zh.(ж)

=============
Also that mean words from calendar MAIA: the Termination of the fifth Sun. = the Beginning of the New Sun???Or not??? Us - will clean, how not stood test???

Let's pray to the Supreme Allah that this bowl, this destiny has avoided us.Omin.

Last edited by ki-en-gar from ki-en-gir; November 27th, 2012 at 11:19 AM.
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Old November 27th, 2012, 01:58 PM   #150

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This is just so bizarre. It's like ancient aliens level.
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