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Old November 23rd, 2012, 01:21 AM   #21

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We have to give it to the ancient Greek's. These guy's are the pioneers of modern building styles and techniques:
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 02:48 AM   #22

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Here's an interesting fact about the Pantheon in Rome. To build the dome, a huge mound of earth was built and the concrete was set on top. Now, in the earth mound the Roman builders mixed in gold coins. Once the concrete was ready, they simply told the plebs that there were gold coins in the earth. The plebs gladly removed all the earth out of the Patheon, searching for the coins.

As for the best builders of the Ancient World, I'd also say Romans, but they have an unfair advantage of being around several centuries later than the Greeks or Egyptians.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 03:01 AM   #23

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The best builders in Ancient Times?
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 07:54 AM   #24

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About the confrontation we should remember that early Egyptians built pyramids without the technology of strong metals, without the help of evolved mechanisms [like Greeks and Romans had] ...
We don't know how they built the pyramid.

Evidence suggests whatever means was used did evolve.

This might make their achievement less remarkable to some people but I'll reserve opinion until we actually study the pyramids and learn how they were built.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 08:11 AM   #25

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We don't know how they built the pyramid.
We know they didn't have a pulley system so bricks could not be lifted into place, instead they had to be pushed into place. It is also discovered that slaves didn't build the pyramid (as written by Herodotus) but there was a workforce with their own village built nearby. It was discovered after a horse cleared some sand revealing a wall, Dr Zahi Hawass and his team soon started exploring the site. The workers had an incredible diet for the time too including meat, a food that a normal Egyptian wouldn't have had often. However it was still intensive labour and bone remains show signs of stress and injury.

I'll definitely champion the Egyptians. They were able to calculate angles of elevation in order to build their complex pyramids. We need to keep in mind they built the most famous pyramids in the 4th dynasty, about 4000 years ago. By the time of Tutankamun, these monuments were already over a thousand years old. A lot of the buildings built in the Egyptian era but are no longer around were usually broken down and used for future building projects by new rulers or invaders, it's a shame, I would have loved to have seen Amenhotep III's temple and the colossi of Memnon in all their glory. We only have to look at Hatshepsut's mortuary temple at Deir el-Bahri to see such grand workmanship. Incredible.

I've been to Italy and loved the buildings and architecture there. Yes, we may think that Roman architecture has evolved to modern uses, but even the Egyptians were building colonnaded monuments and temples.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 09:01 AM   #26

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However it was still intensive labour and bone remains show signs of stress and injury.
This is highly presumptive and is really another example of Egyptology forcing the evidence to fit their assumptions. The fact that these individuals exhibit extensive stresses and arthritis merely suggests that the building project wasn't overstaffed. What they don't say is that many of the nobles exhibit exactly the same stresses as the workers. This merely says that hard labor was a societal norm and not that they must have used some barbaric, primitive, and wholly unevidenced method to build the great pyramids.

They also don't tell you details of the workmens' villages that completely deny their assumptions. They don't tell you the titles of the builders don't fit their assumptions. Every year there is more and more evidence that all the assumptions are wrong yet they pound the round evidence into square holes. The shavings and much of the evidence is merely pronounced to be irrelevant.

There is tremendous engineering and planning expressed by these structure almost no matter how they were built. The craftsmanship is very remarkable and the methods to achieve it are not always understood today. But to my mind the real feat of building the great pyramids is best expressed by the essential impossbility of lifting the Great Pyramid (G1) (the Great Pyramid) into position. There isn't enough room to emplace the manpower required and no obvious means to apply a motive force.

Egyptology has utterly failed for 150 years to gather the data to solve the questions. They simply assumed it must have been primitive and laborious and have been ignoring even basic research for decades. They've created an enormous construct founded on assumptions and know better than rock the boat with facts.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 09:15 AM   #27

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Egyptology has utterly failed for 150 years to gather the data to solve the questions. They simply assumed it must have been primitive and laborious and have been ignoring even basic research for decades. They've created an enormous construct founded on assumptions and know better than rock the boat with facts.
It is true that Egyptology is considerably less advanced than the study of classical history. I think we have to keep in mind that the pyramids are some of the oldest man made structures, there isn't much information about how they were constructed at all. This is especially the case because under the absolute rule of the kings at the time, manpower was just another resource like a physical material.

Yes, I have heard the arguments of a lot of Egyptologists trying to force their ideas in order to gain personal fame rather than the truth over particular issues. By all means the workforce could have been understaffed. A lot of sources I have read say only a small percentage of workers were permanently employed building the pyramids. Others worked a few months of the year. Similarly, I've also read that these builders were 'conscripted' from all areas of Egypt.

However, undeniably the pyramids are a great and enigmatic building accomplishment as well as other ancient Egyptian buildings. It's a shame that there are still so many things we do not know about ancient Egypt, however unfortunately a builder wouldn't have had the same burial as a member of the elite so we may never know their stories, there are no writings from them nor are there drawings about their lives building such monuments.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 09:26 AM   #28
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I will say the Eygptions, the Chinese, Greeks, and the romans
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 09:28 AM   #29
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Just curious, how long did it take for the EGpytions to build the great pyramids?
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 09:40 AM   #30

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Just curious, how long did it take for the EGpytions to build the great pyramids?
Well as they were the final resting places for the Pharaohs they had to be completed during their reigns. I've heard the Great Pyramid took about 20 years with 1 block laid every 2 minutes working 10 hours a day. I'm not sure at all how this was calculated, but that's just figures I've read from one source.

Some kings had to build more than one pyramid during their reign if there were issues with their first attempt. Like the Bent Pyramid of Sneferu. When problems with that structure arose he had to complete because if he didn't it would have been humiliating but as a backup plan he tried to construct smooth walls on a step pyramid at Meidum as well as building a new pyramid entirely - the Red Pyramid. Essentially, during his reign Sneferu had 3 construction projects going on at once.

I'd really love to research ancient Chinese building projects, I've never really seen many to make an honest evaluation!
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