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Old January 8th, 2017, 11:46 AM   #31
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Just for the sake of latitude btw: is Smenkh-ra a variant version of Ankh-ra?
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Old January 8th, 2017, 12:13 PM   #32

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The problem is that the stela increases the confusion and it doesn't shed so much light on the matter [from our perspective ... who corrected it knew what was going on].

For example James P. Allen is not that sure to exclude Smenkhara from the scenario as a different real person [as husband of Meritaten and not co-regent - see "Two Altered Inscriptions of the Late Amarna Period ", 1988].

We would need a "backbone", a stable point of reference to try and understand.

My impression is that Nefertiti played more than a role, but ...

What would be decisive it would be to find something in the Hittite archives which identifies with certainty a doubtful personage. An external correspondence would be pivotal. But so far [what I mean is that if Hittite were used to see Nefertiti, meeting Smenkhara ... they would have recognized Nefertiti ...].
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Old January 8th, 2017, 12:16 PM   #33

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Originally Posted by Ayrton View Post
Just for the sake of latitude btw: is Smenkh-ra a variant version of Ankh-ra?
Looking at the hieroglyphs ... no, Ankhkheperura is more near to Ankh-ra than Smenkhara [or Smenkh-ra, vowels are not that certain as phonetic transcription about ancient Egyptian names].
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Old January 8th, 2017, 06:45 PM   #34
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Thanks again. What do you think Smenkara should be translated as?
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Old January 9th, 2017, 02:00 AM   #35

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Thanks again. What do you think Smenkara should be translated as?
So we are talking about his proper name "Smenkhara".

It's complete name [Smenkhara-Djeserkheperu] means something like "The Soul of Ra is Powerful".

Smenkhara itself is composed and one of its component "smnḫ" can change meaning according to the context.
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Old January 9th, 2017, 07:47 PM   #36
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So Smnh has many potential meanings, or just a few? If just a few, is it possible for you to list them?
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Old January 9th, 2017, 07:55 PM   #37
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Btw in regard to the Coregncy Stela not throwing much light on things.... I think it is hard evidence for something going on, and it's for us interested folk to pierce the mystery, or maybe just see an obvious answer, once we've worked out what it is!

So, is it possible for you to list the three original names in their original forms (actual names/titles on Stela), and the three names/tiles in original form AFTER they were altered?

Again, not who we think they are, but actual names/title in direct translation from what is on Stela both BEFORE and AFTER.

Things get confusing enough, but it gets worse, I find, when Egyptologists give what they think is the most familiar name/titles to us, and not the actual name/title on inscriptions.

Hope I make sense!!!

Last edited by Ayrton; January 9th, 2017 at 08:03 PM.
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Old January 10th, 2017, 12:18 AM   #38

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So Smnh has many potential meanings, or just a few? If just a few, is it possible for you to list them?
It appears in expressions which are always positive. The literal translation is always not that accurate [since we have to remind that ancient Egyptian has been "resurrected" thanks to the Greek bridge].

You can find that term in expressions indicating power, stability, excellence [so, if you make something excellent, it's admirable ...].
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Old January 10th, 2017, 12:49 AM   #39

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Btw in regard to the Coregncy Stela not throwing much light on things.... I think it is hard evidence for something going on, and it's for us interested folk to pierce the mystery, or maybe just see an obvious answer, once we've worked out what it is!

So, is it possible for you to list the three original names in their original forms (actual names/titles on Stela), and the three names/tiles in original form AFTER they were altered?

Again, not who we think they are, but actual names/title in direct translation from what is on Stela both BEFORE and AFTER.

Things get confusing enough, but it gets worse, I find, when Egyptologists give what they think is the most familiar name/titles to us, and not the actual name/title on inscriptions.

Hope I make sense!!!
You make sense. And not having an academical stance to defend I've got no problem to explore different paths.

To defend or protect, this is often why Egyptologists sound reluctant to listen to not academical suppositions or in any case new suggestions ... think to the reaction to the hypothesis that Nefertiti is buried in a hidden chamber next to Tut's burial chamber ... real or not, the immediate reaction was a total rebuttal.

Anyway, pay attention that this attitude is also the consequence of decades of insane theories which have orbited around Ancient Egyptians and their most famous monuments.

So, the names ...

About that stela I have to say that it's difficult to find a detailed image [so to read it, directly and the description of the museum hosting it is not that detailed WebCite query result ; Object details].

Not having a clear image of the hieroglyphs, for now [I will look further] I can rely on what seems to be the general impression: Smenkhara cartouche [with a curious female prolongation] has substituted Nefertiti cartouche and a reference to Meritaten.

What I'm going to do, is to look if there are relations of the stela available, with drawings of the hieroglyphs.
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Old January 10th, 2017, 03:21 AM   #40
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Thanks again. If I can see the actual titles/names AFTER alteration I will at least feel I'm confident I have some hard facts as a starting point.

(I am an ex-cop. Logical investigation begins and ends with identifying basic facts and evidence. If facts are few and scattered, at least your speculations, whether sound or wild, can at least be based on a solid foundation).

How Egyptologist know what was on the Stela BEFORE it was over carved, interests me too. How confident can we be with the BEFORE personages?
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