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Old June 15th, 2017, 10:50 AM   #31

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Ok, thank you for providing more sources related to that Archaeological site.

But my main point was that there is no peer-review article or any scientific publications that defends the thesis that horses were first domesticated in the Arabian Peninsula 9000 years ago. The bibliographical sources that you provided me don't even attest to that.
Come on, Robto, you spoilsport! If Historum required peer-reviewed articles, etc., as evidence, it would have to shut down for lack of comments!
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Old June 15th, 2017, 01:09 PM   #32

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Question on this horse domestication thing: AFAIK, horse was initially domesticated for food, not for riding (like cattle).

Do we have clues when the "passage" from "food source" status to transportation use (chariot/ridding) occurred in different cultures ? Because, in some aspects, it's a fundamental difference, IMHO.
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Old June 15th, 2017, 01:17 PM   #33

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Question on this horse domestication thing: AFAIK, horse was initially domesticated for food, not for riding (like cattle).

Do we have clues when the "passage" from "food source" status to transportation use (chariot/ridding) occurred in different cultures ? Because, in some aspects, it's a fundamental difference, IMHO.
All horses descend from ONE stallion. From the Arab to the Yakuta to the mighty Shetland. One stallion.
The idea for domesticating the horse came from the reindeer herders. Horses are harder to manage. I was going to write an article on it, but Dr. Mair said he was going to do it, so I didn't. The Scythians would put velvet antlers on horses destined for sacrifice.

http://sino-platonic.org/complete/spp177_horses.pdf

Beverley Davis, “Timeline of the Development of the Horse,” .... The horse is domesticated in southern Russia. The first ... The wild ass is domesticated in Africa.
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Old June 15th, 2017, 02:00 PM   #34

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All horses descend from ONE stallion. From the Arab to the Yakuta to the mighty Shetland. One stallion.
The idea for domesticating the horse came from the reindeer herders. Horses are harder to manage. I was going to write an article on it, but Dr. Mair said he was going to do it, so I didn't. The Scythians would put velvet antlers on horses destined for sacrifice.

http://sino-platonic.org/complete/spp177_horses.pdf

Beverley Davis, “Timeline of the Development of the Horse,” .... The horse is domesticated in southern Russia. The first ... The wild ass is domesticated in Africa.
Thank You for the link.

Honestly, I'm a bit doubtful by nature :"… All horses descend from ONE stallion. From the Arab to the Yakuta to the mighty Shetland. One stallion. … "

That one stallion, needed a mare, didn't he ? And that mare, had a stallion as father, and that one couldn't be the one stallion we're talking about …

But it isn't about that.

My question was in the context of the thread: domesticating horse wasn't initially for riding but for food.

Do we know if the proto-europeans mentioned in the thread were ridding, or when they started to ride them.

Personally, I don't find a strict relationship between ridding / chariots and human spreading. We know human populations did spread (on large areals and quickly) whitout traction animals or ridding.

PS: it isn't contesting the OP, is asking.
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Old June 15th, 2017, 03:21 PM   #35

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Thank You for the link.

Honestly, I'm a bit doubtful by nature :"… All horses descend from ONE stallion. From the Arab to the Yakuta to the mighty Shetland. One stallion. … "

That one stallion, needed a mare, didn't he ? And that mare, had a stallion as father, and that one couldn't be the one stallion we're talking about …
Just because all modern horses descend from a single stallion, it does not mean that the supposed "first stallion" was the literally first and only stallion to exist on earth.

What it means is that his lineage was the only one that survived intact and supplanted all other lineages. That's how genealogy works.

All modern humans also trace back their ancestry to a single male that lived somewhere in East Africa 70.000 years ago.

Last edited by robto; June 15th, 2017 at 04:50 PM.
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Old June 15th, 2017, 03:38 PM   #36

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I am a little confused about the maps and the texts written about them. The multiple references to North/Eastern China seem a bit strange. To me North China is a region going from the Peking area to the South. The maps showed locations in Mongolia and Siberia. Even if you use the present Chinese borders, the proper location to me would be North West China/Sinkiang.

I read a nice article a while back that said Horses were first tamed and used for meat and milk. They were too small to carry a human. They could have carried a pack. Horse meat is still eaten in Europe. In the US it is used for dog food.

Also perhaps the OP is not used to using English? He keeps using CARS as a transport device drawn by Horses. Perhaps he meant CARTS?

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Old June 15th, 2017, 07:44 PM   #37

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Come on, Robto, you spoilsport! If Historum required peer-reviewed articles, etc., as evidence, it would have to shut down for lack of comments!
Very nice.
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Old June 15th, 2017, 07:52 PM   #38

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Personally, I don't find a strict relationship between ridding / chariots and human spreading. We know human populations did spread (on large areals and quickly) whitout traction animals or ridding.
Don't forget this among the many things that we used horses for:

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old June 16th, 2017, 04:36 AM   #39

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Originally Posted by deaf tuner View Post
Thank You for the link.

Honestly, I'm a bit doubtful by nature :"… All horses descend from ONE stallion. From the Arab to the Yakuta to the mighty Shetland. One stallion. … "

That one stallion, needed a mare, didn't he ? And that mare, had a stallion as father, and that one couldn't be the one stallion we're talking about …

But it isn't about that.

My question was in the context of the thread: domesticating horse wasn't initially for riding but for food.

Do we know if the proto-europeans mentioned in the thread were ridding, or when they started to ride them.

Personally, I don't find a strict relationship between ridding / chariots and human spreading. We know human populations did spread (on large areals and quickly) whitout traction animals or ridding.

PS: it isn't contesting the OP, is asking.
There are 70+ mare lines. D is the Nisean horse of Persia. C is Celtic. A is the 66 chromosome horse of which on the Przewalski remains(A2). If you are familiar with the domestication event of the fox, breeding tame to tame actually caused the mutation that created the domestic fox. Something similar happened with the horse Even though horses in A family (excluding A2) are 64 chromosome horses, the foundation mares were 66. The Portuguese Sorraia is the domestic horse most closely related to the Przewalski horse. It is labeled JSO4. Except for one pesky Andalusian line and an interesting mustang/Japanese horse connection all horses clearly show they were imported to Europe.

The Arabian is a man made breed created at Crabbet stud. The first horses in Arabia came from Rome. Dr. Cothran at U Tx did a dna test that showed the Arab is descended from the Marwari. The Egyptians got horses from the Mittani, and who were the Mittani? Vedic Indians. There is even an Arabian line that is starting to show the curved ears of the Marwari.

And absolutely horses were kept for food before they were kept for anything else. People in Central Asia still milk mares. Allow me a flight of fancy, but I have always imagined the first person to ride a horse was a 16 year old girl.

Last edited by bedb; June 16th, 2017 at 04:38 AM.
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Old June 16th, 2017, 04:58 AM   #40

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Horse meat is still eaten in Europe. In the US it is used for dog food.
[…]
Also perhaps the OP is not used to using English? He keeps using CARS as a transport device drawn by Horses. Perhaps he meant CARTS?
Just a note on Horse meat: it is still eaten in Europe, Asia and America, and probably in more continents. Horse meat is also used for dog food in various continents, including Europe.

Automatic translators can induce in error translating “Cart” and “Car”. For instance if you translate “Car” to my mother language, Portuguese, it is “Carro”. “Carro” is a vehicle with two or more parallel wheels with or without motor.
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