Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > World History Forum > Ancient History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Ancient History Ancient History Forum - Greece, Rome, Carthage, Egypt, Mesopotamia, and all other civilizations of antiquity, to include Prehistory and Archaeology discussions

LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 7th, 2017, 11:32 AM   #351

davu's Avatar
Joined: Jun 2010
From: Retired - This Mountain isn't on a Map
Posts: 4,078

and as promised -- the riddle of the first two numbers on the Kensington Rune Stone -- 8 & 22 --- no jumping up and down allowed until you have verified the positioning on your own calculations.....as spelled out below --- enjoy your weekend.

Phippsburg History Center
Page Liked · October 14 ·

“Qibla Charts, Qibla Maps, and Related Instruments”

The intersection of the 8°22’ series of rhumb lines from the Library of Alexandria (Alexandria, Egypt) out to the KRS discovery location is actually quite significant. It wasn’t a random, lucky find. The KRS Inscription told us where to start and what bearing to take.

The fact that the rhumb line failed to intersect the KRS discovery site is also important – the 1908-established values of the Range of the Obliquity of the Ecliptic (axial tilt) had not yet been established, the measurements that led to the formulation of the Megalithic Yard (MY) hypothesis didn’t happen until the mid-20th century (and would have to wait until c. 1974 to be statistically validated), and the hypothesis that the KRS Inscription contained geodetic elements in its allegory was put forth until 2015.

A 19th century fabrication of the KRS Inscription and, most importantly, the positioning of the KRS on the Minnesota landscape relative to the Spirit Pond Rune Stone intersection, the Great Circle route intersection with the Newport Tower inner diameter intersection at 292°, and the MY equivalence at 283.5° on the interior of the NT are elements that were absolutely UNKNOWN to any 19th century fabricator.

There were several runic characters on the KRS were unknown – to even the most educated and knowledgeable runologists/philologists - in the late 19th century and first-half of the 20th century. These runic character anomalies persisted until just the last two decades when very talented, non-professional runologists found them in texts and on runic inscriptions in Scandinavia. These individuals, too many to name all of them, proved the Medieval Era provenance of all the runic characters on the KRS. The runological issue at present is related to…get this…word spelling.

The hypothesized geodetic information on the KRS (and SPR) will be disputed. The oft-heard refrain that longitude could not be determined will be trotted out – without distinction between the determination of longitude on land vice an unstable ship, in motion, across the ocean.

The latter case was exceedingly difficult to perform as determination of longitude relied upon an external reference, i.e., sighting and measuring elevation, Right Ascension, and angle deltas between objects in the heavens, and the ship’s motion preclude a stable, fixed measurement.

With respect to the former, determination of longitude of a land-situated point was being performed back into Antiquity. The science, or art, resulted in more accurate longitude determination as the Medieval Era progressed.

The Arab astronomers, scientists, mathematicians, and instrument makers had moved beyond simply the measuring of longitude by the 10th century, according to David A. King. How do we know this? It is quite simple, they were doing mathematical computations based on latitude and longitude values at two different geodetic locations and then extrapolating the line of bearing (rhumb line angle) between them. This method was called determining the qibla.

The 8°22’ series of rhumb lines from the Library of Alexandria (Alexandria, Egypt) out to the KRS discovery location is, essentially, a qibla line. If one knows the line of bearing to be followed, the starting point’s latitude and longitude values, and have a numerical value of the Earth’s circumference, then the end point’s latitude and longitude values are derived computationally.

The Arabs had this knowledge by the 10th century. Where and how did this knowledge conduit out of the Arabic world to the West? Was it through late-Viking Era trade – which one has to presume persisted even after the 11th century? Was it through trade interaction within the Mediterranean Sea, possibly Italy in the early 14th century when the Italians began producing their technologically advanced portolan charts? Was it through the onset of the Crusades at the very end of the 11th century, with the resulting sharing of information between the Moslems and the Crusaders for nearly two centuries? Or was it knowledge that was obtained, and possibly sequestered, by an organization of influence and power during the Crusades? Was it simply a knowledge transfer that occurred on the Iberian Peninsula during the Moorish Occupation? Or was it an amalgamation of all of the above, landing in disparate locations throughout Western Europe at different periods of time?

This qibla bearing line was just limited to point to point bearing determination on land. We know that portolan charts from ca. 1320 used rhumb lines as directional pointers between locations. We know that in the 15th century, determination of dimensional distances across the Atlantic Ocean involved an angular component (vice an east – west run) (refer to Treaty of Tordesillas explanation letter of Jaime Ferrer).

If the 8°22’ series of rhumb lines from the Library of Alexandria (Alexandria, Egypt) out to the KRS discovery location ACTUALLY INTERSECTED THE KRS…I would immediately call the KRS a hoax. Why?

Because our modern-day Earth longitudes incorporate the Equatorial Bulge in their spacing, hence values. Secondly, an intersect also means that the calculated end point position from Alexandria utilized the EXACT MODERN-DAY CIRCUMFERENCE VALUES FOR A SLIGHTLY ELLIPSOID EARTH.

An intersection would instantly denote the geodetic information as no older than the early 1700s when Newton’s hypothesized oblate-spheroid Earth was confirmed and polar and equatorial values assigned.

Bottom line: Qibla methodology was well-understood and known by the 10th century. The KRS is dated 1362.

Harley, J. B., and David Woodward. Cartography in the traditional Islamic and South Asian societies. Chicago, IL: University of Chicago Press, 1992.

See Chapter 9 (downloadable .pdf file, highly recommended): http://www.press.uchicago.edu/books/...1_chapter9.pdf

King, D.A., and Lorch, R.P. “Qibla Charts, Qibla Maps, and Related Instruments”.

Other Qibla Presentations/Discussions:

davu is offline  
Remove Ads
Old December 8th, 2017, 10:14 AM   #352

davu's Avatar
Joined: Jun 2010
From: Retired - This Mountain isn't on a Map
Posts: 4,078

so, getting lost in North America with a map.....hummmm (please click on link below, as this shows the "Ptolemy longitude" coordinates.....to do this ...emphasis is mine......have another nice weekend.........required reading...


'To do this we need to leave our modern world and travel back in time to the era of Ptolemaic geography, astrolabes, and accept the idea that the Earth stood still while the heavens revolved it/us in a 360° circle over the span of 24 hours (1440 total minutes). Our down-convert ratio is 1 minute RA = 0.25 degrees. To up-convert from degrees to minutes RA we must multiply Degrees X 4.'


Biørn Jonsen of Skarsaa: Description of Greenland and the Skálholt Map - 10 verso

Phippsburg History Center
Page Liked · February 14, 2016 ·

Western Margin Is 35 Miles East of KRS Location

The base layer of this slide may be found in Folio 10, verso of the surviving copy of the 1570 Skalholt Map.

Biørn Jonsen of Skarsaa: Description of Greenland and the Skálholt Map - 10 verso

The origin of the Skalholt Map was traced to Sigurd Stefánsson, the grandson of a former bishop of Skalholt and a teacher in his own right. Stefánsson’s intent was to document and illustrate the extant of Norse explorations that had occurred in the western Atlantic by using the surviving historical records of the Skalholt, Iceland monastery.

We are all captives of the age we live in. I say this because when I first sat down to deconstruct Folio 10 of the Skalholt Map I was compelled to compare it to modern cartographic products. I fired up Google Earth (GE), began cross-comparing a four hundred year old (if not much older) map against satellite photographs with their precisely rendered lines of latitude and longitude, started drawing lines on PowerPoint, and then, out of frustration, formed the impression that this particular map folio was just another soup sandwich like so many other ancient maps I had looked at. Maybe they were good for their times, but not so much for mine.

The placement of the landmasses relative to the depicted longitude and latitude was goobered up.

I could understand longitude being goobered up as countless historians and cartographers have written that determination of accurate longitudes didn’t effectively happen until the development of accurate chronometers in the 18th century. This inability to determine longitude has been repeated so often in manuscripts and texts that it is seemingly unquestioned dogma.

The latitudinal inaccuracies (1.5 - 5 degrees) on this particular folio of the Skalholt Map were both significant and unexpected. Other Skalholt folios exhibited much smaller latitude departures (1-2 degrees maximum). The errors were unexpected (to me) because it is widely accepted that determination of latitude in this era was not difficult to execute.

The green colored lines and shading represent features which correlate well between the 1570 Skalholt Map (copy of) and GE. The yellow and red colored lines and shading represent mismatches of increasing dimensions.

Bottom line…when Folio 10 is analyzed using modern day cartographic conventions, a soup sandwich presents itself.

The drawn longitudes on this map sheet warrant a discussion.

The top and bottom margins of the map have what appears to be a graticule of longitudinal degrees with a span of 110°. The scale begins at 280° somewhere in “Skralinge Land” on the map’s left side, continues to 0/360° east of Iceland, and then ends on the western coast of Norway in the general vicinity of Bergen at 30°.

Note that the first depiction of the coast of Norway is situated between the “Feroe” (Faroe) Islands and “Hetland” (Shetland) Islands. If one cross-compares this using GE, the first depiction of the coast of Norway falls very close to where Bergen, the then capital of Norway, was located.

Bergen, using our modern day Greenwich Prime Meridian, is at 5.32° E longitude. This is equivalent to a modern day Right Ascension value of 12h21m16.97s.

The western margin of the map, as per its numbering scheme, is 110 longitudinal degrees WEST of Bergen.

We strongly suspect that the map was drawn using the Ptolemaic model as the 0/360 longitude line is sitting between Iceland and Ireland. The only other historical Prime Meridian in this general area is the ca. 1673 St. Andrews, Scotland Prime Meridian and which post-dates the Skalholt Map.

We can see that, in reference to the 0/360 Ptolemaic Prime Meridian line, Iceland (8° West), the southern tip of Greenland (10° West), and the northern tip of Winlandia (18° West) [we’ll presume, for now, this to be the northern tip of Newfoundland] are offset WEST. As these offsets represent a form of map error (at least compared to modern day map placements), we need to understand just how large the error magnitude was.

To do this, we need to figure out if the 110° longitude span is equivalent to (1) the modern day degree, (2) the Ptolemaic model degree cross-referenced to Right Ascension, or (3-1 and 3-2) some variation on either of the two above cases.

Although it is unlikely to hold true based on the large inaccuracies when compared to GE, we still need to test for this. The easiest way is to take the current longitude of Bergen, 5.32°E, and add 104.68° in a westerly direction to it. The resultant longitude is -104.68°. This line of longitude runs along the Front Range of the Rocky Mountains. I can’t insult anyone’s intelligence by suggesting the Skalholt Map’s western boundary is out in Colorado.

I reject the case that the longitude degrees on this folio of the Skalholt Map are equivalent to today’s degree convention. We reject cases (1) and (3-1).
Test Run #1

Let’s presume that the longitude scale on Folio 10 represents down-converted degrees from Right Ascension values.

To do this we need to leave our modern world and travel back in time to the era of Ptolemaic geography, astrolabes, and accept the idea that the Earth stood still while the heavens revolved it/us in a 360° circle over the span of 24 hours (1440 total minutes). Our down-convert ratio is 1 minute RA = 0.25 degrees. To up-convert from degrees to minutes RA we must multiply Degrees X 4.

For the first Test Run I chose Bergen on the eastern, or right edge, of the map. Here are the results:

Bergen (12h21m16.97s RA) to Shetland Islands, E
-Calculated RA from Map degrees-56 minutes
-Actual RA Bergen to Shetland (11h54m48.05s RA)-27 minutes

Bergen (12h21m16.97s RA) to Faroe Islands, E
-Calculated RA from Map degrees-80 minutes
-Actual RA Bergen to Faroe (11h33m27.94s RA)-48 minutes

Bergen (12h21m16.97s RA) to Iceland, E
-Calculated RA from Map degrees-144 minutes
-Actual RA Bergen to Iceland (11h05m10.14s RA)-76 minutes

Bergen (12h21m16.97s RA) to Greenland, Southern Tip, E
-Calculated RA from Map degrees-240 minutes
-Actual RA Bergen to Greenland, Southern (9h07m23.25s RA) Tip-194 minutes

Bergen (12h21m16.97s RA) to Winlandia, Tip
-Calculated RA from Map degrees-276 minutes
-Actual RA Bergen to Winlandia, Tip (8h17m52.17s RA)-244 minutes

This test case produced no predictable pattern between the Calculated RA and the Actual RA values. The placement of geographical places/land on this folio of the Skalholt Map did not progress from the eastern margin (Norway) to the western margin (“Skralinge Land”).
Ptolemaic Model Cross-Referenced to RA
Test Run #2

While it seems intuitive to utilize the 0/360 longitude line – as it screams out PRIME MERIDIAN – the fact of the matter is that I was doing three things concurrently: typing this narrative, plotting push pins on GE, and doing the mathematical calculations. It is one thing to speculate that the 0/360 line was a Prime Meridian, it is quite another to have hard data that supports the contention. So…I did the Bergen/eastern edge of the map first, and now we step into the second test run.

0/360 PM (11h00m19.82s RA) to Faroe, W
-Calculated RA from Map degrees-28 minutes
-Actual RA 0/360 PM to Faroe, W (11h29m13.79s RA)-29 minutes
THIS IS DEAD ON (approximate 8.5 mile offset; this could be the drawn line thickness)!

0/360 PM (11h00m19.82s RA) to Shetland, W
-Calculated RA from Map degrees-52 minutes
-Actual RA 0/360 PM to Shetland, W (11h52m47.47s RA)-52 minutes

0/360 PM (11h00m19.82s RA) to Iceland, E
-Calculated RA from Map degrees-24 minutes
-Actual RA 0/360 PM to Iceland, E (11h05m10.14s RA)-5 minutes
WE HAVE A MAP PLACEMENT ERROR OF 29 MINUTES EAST. This result was not unexpected. I have the Ptolemaic “45 Degree West From Canopus” meridian plotted on GE and since I look at it every day, I already knew that Iceland’s positioning was skewed on Folio 10.

This misplacement of Iceland is actually quite informative. It tells us that whoever copied/transcribed the map from a previous drawing had very little cartographic or astronomical knowledge, for had they; they would have immediately recognized the gross misplacement of Iceland and likely have attempted to correct it. There has always been conjecture that the Skalholt Map folios were copied from earlier and more ancient maps. This misplacement of Iceland, when coupled with the great accuracy of the Shetland and Faroe Island placements, would, in my view, support the ancient map contention.

0/360 PM (11h00m19.82s RA) to Greenland, Southern Tip, E
-Calculated RA from Map degrees-120 minutes (corresponds to western side of Greenland at southern tip)
-Actual RA 0/360 PM to Greenland, Southern Tip, E (9h07m23.25s RA)-113 minutes (corresponds to eastern side of Greenland at southern tip)
WE HAVE A MAP PLACEMENT ERROR OF 7 MINUTES WEST. This is equivalent to 1.75° map error or a ground distance error of approximately 60 miles at 60°N latitude.

The distance from the east side to the west side of Greenland at the 60°N latitude is approximately 60 miles. In other words, what I am calling a map placement error of being seven minutes to the west is actually where the “Eastern Settlement” was located on Greenland.

Whether the error is attributable to the difficulty of accurately depicting the southern end of Greenland, the scribe becoming confused by the manuscript which described the two Greenland settlements as the “Eastern Settlement” and the “Western Settlement” while geographically placing both of them on the western side (as they were), or an error in the longitudinal measurement taken long before the scribe began to graphically translate the manuscript, we shall likely never know. What we can see is that the scribe drew both and east and west coast of Greenland and then illustrated a settlement at the southern tip of Greenland at a point equidistant from those coasts. There was no settlement where the square was placed on the map. I suspect that perhaps the scribe was “shading” his placement because of some confusion in interpreting the manuscript.

The seven minute offset error, while not displaying the ultra-accuracy that we found from the PM to the Faroe and Shetland Islands, should still be considered a reasonably accurate placement.

0/360 PM (11h00m19.82s RA) to Winlandia, Tip
-Calculated RA from Map degrees-200 minutes
-Actual RA 0/360 PM to Winlandia, Tip [Newfoundland] (8h17m52.17s RA)-163 minutes
WE HAVE A MAP PLACEMENT ERROR OF 37 MINUTES WEST. This obviously doesn’t work too well to support the presumed case that L’Anse aux Meadows at the northern tip of Newfoundland is Winlandia.

Let’s find out where 200 minutes west of the PM is located (RA value would be (7h40m19.82s)…this puts us on a present day longitude line of -64.917413° and which slices through NOVA SCOTIA. Wow! The Skalholt Map puts Vinland in Nova Scotia.

0/360 PM (11h00m19.82s RA) to 280° Western Margin of Map
-Calculated RA from Map degrees-320 minutes (or 5hrs20m)
-PLOTTED RA 0/360 PM to Western Margin of Map (5h40m19.82s RA)

There is only a finite amount of space one has to draw a map. First you measure your paper, next you determine what scale (for longitude and latitude) your map is going to use in order to fit onto your paper, you then “frame” your composition by creating your longitude and latitude scales, and once all the above is complete – and only then – do you start dropping your landmasses into position on your paper.

Your scale calculations are predicated by what you want to convey. The larger the breadth of land, the smaller your scale must be in order to fit it onto that finite-sized paper. Drawing extraneous landmasses or creating an unnecessarily large longitude/latitude grid has an end result of reducing your map’s resolution.


Folio 10 of the Skalholt Map represents the North American landmass all the way out to 5h40m19.82s RA, or -94.917434° longitude. This longitude line is 35.92 miles to the EAST of where the Kensington Runestone was discovered (and, ironically, only 389 feet to the west of the Sauk Center Altar Rock).

Why in the world do we find such a thing?

Why would a map depiction use a western margin line that is approximately 1800 miles further to the west of L’Anse aux Meadows – the only unanimously accepted Viking/Norse settlement in North America?

Skeptics will dismiss the above questions. They will, more likely than not, just chalk up the overextended western margin as an error on the part of the mapmaker, he who was graphically challenged in portraying a manuscript account. They will say that no Vikings/Norse ever travelled much further west than the location of L’Anse aux Meadows and, even if they did, where is the evidence of such travels?

It is my contention that the originator of Folio 10 of the Skalholt Map intended to depict the landmass of the North American continent. This can be discerned by the placement of the Prime Meridian only 30 degrees west of the eastern margin of the map (Bergen, Norway). The remaining 73% of the map depicted the new discoveries out to the west of the “45 Degree West From Canopus” Prime Meridian. Yes, the Vikings/Norse went WEST. They knew it and their Skalholt Map, is testimony to their western focus. One third of the map is devoted to the lands to the west of Greenland.

If they never went to North America, why depict it at all?

Not to belabor the point, but when someone stops you on the street and asks for directions to someplace, what do you do? Here is what I do…if I know where the location is that the person wants to go, I will draw him/her a map. If I don’t know the location, I don’t draw a map and refer them to another resource that might be able to help.

Let’s step back to the Skalholt Map…why draw a location that you have never visited? It defies common sense. Yet, historians want you to believe that the Skalholt Map is actually you…the presumed Good Samaritan who is drawing a map for a completed stranger to go to a location that you don’t have any clue about.

Think about it.

In general, I have to say that historians have completely missed the boat with respect to the Skalholt Maps reflecting the Ptolemaic geography/astronomy model. I have not found any scholarship stating that the maps used a longitude scale down-converted from astronomical RA values. I guess historians are too mesmerized by the depiction of Frislandia to pay much attention to important details like longitude. Why look at longitude? According to the esteemed historians, no one could accurately measure it until the accurate chronometers were invented in the mid-18th century.

In a sense of fair play to historians, I admit that without Google Earth I never would have figured this RA connection out. GE gives us the ability to push pin RA values and then flip to an Earth view to see where the push pin is located. It takes a few seconds. Prior to GE (and computers), this type of calculation would involve paper charts and maps and would be extremely laborious.

About nine months ago I read the transliterations of the Kensington and Spirit Pond Runestones. I was struck by the use of numbers in phrases which contained directional clues (west and north on both runestones). I felt the numbers and directional clues were indicative of geographic/cartographic information. In time, and after lots of wild goose chases and dead ends, it became apparent that the best model to decipher the clues was using a Ptolemaic model of astronomical Right Ascension which provided values for longitude and latitude. To support my hypothesis, I looked for maps that were associated with Viking/Norse exploration that might be able to provide clues on the use of a Ptolemaic model. Three maps came out of the darkness of history, the Skalholt Map, the Nancy Map, and the much-maligned Zeno Map. I read volumes on these maps, yet no one discussed whether they were illustrative of Ptolemy’s model. I reckon the historians were too busy debunking the provenance of the above maps so as to shut down any potential they had for authenticating North American explorations that left behind the Kensington and Spirit Pond Runestones. So I figured it out for myself. You can do it as well for at the bottom of this narrative I will provide all the GE push pin coordinates I used.

In time we will do another slide and narrative on the SECOND map within the Skalholt Map folios which used RA values for longitudinal placement.

-We have a runestone discovered in Minnesota which has numbers and directional clues imbedded in its MANUSCRIPT that illustrate usage of the Ptolemaic model of astronomy/geography.
-We have a runestone in Maine which has numbers and directional clues imbedded in its MANUSCRIPT and which likewise represent usage of the Ptolemaic system of RA derived longitude/latitude.
-We have a map of numerous folios found in an Icelandic monastery…one folio absolutely uses the Ptolemaic model of RA (down-converted to degrees) to represent longitude, it depicts Vinland to be in NOVA SCOTIA, and its western margin carries it out into the North American continent to a point a mere thirty-five miles distant from where the KRS was discovered…and a second folio is very similar in construct.

Cartography, geography, and astronomy are hard sciences. I have used aspects of each science to see whether those numbers and directional clues on the runestones tell a story of authenticity. Up to this point, they unfailingly have.

I have sourced my references and provided the GE push pin coordinates that support my hypothesis.

The world was different six centuries ago. For us to fully understand the intent of the message on the KRS and SPR artifacts, we have to learn the knowledge that Ptolemy wrote about in the second century A.D. Thanks for following along!

-Bergen: 60.389740°, 5.320702°; 12h21m16.97s
-Shetland Island, Actual: 60.358405°, -1.296220°; 11h54m48.05s
-Shetland Island, West: 60.247376°, -1.802222°; 11h52m47.47s
-Faroe Island, Actual: 62.065982°, -6.633594°; 11h33m27.94s
-Faroe Island, West: 62.092649°, -7.692563°; 11h29m13.79s
-Iceland, Actual (E): 64.961148°, -13.707739°; 11h05m10.14s
-Greenland, Southern Tip, E: 59.958937°, -43.153139°; 9h07m23.25s
-Greenland, Southern Tip, W: 59.958937°, -44.903125°; 9h00m23.25s
-Winlandia, Tip: 51.595147°, -55.532646°; 8h17m52.17s
-200 Minutes West of PM: 45.429452°, -64.917413°; 7h40m19.82s
-280° Western Margin of Map: 45.810828°, -94.917434°; 5h40m19.82s

-Sauk Center Altar Rock: 45.784823°, -94.916275°

Last edited by davu; December 8th, 2017 at 10:21 AM.
davu is offline  
Old December 29th, 2017, 06:46 AM   #353

davu's Avatar
Joined: Jun 2010
From: Retired - This Mountain isn't on a Map
Posts: 4,078

just when you thought it was safe to go out and play....Erling Haagensen and Henry Lincoln come banging on your door with research on Bornholm....and you thought they were full of it....(omg). SO....... "What was the significance of these “non-east to west” church alignments?”.....

Again, interesting questions to be asked and answers to be hunted down..leaving the question (always)....... 'what if.......'

enjoy the New Year's happenings....next year we will be posting A LOT more...get your Ptolemy and astrolabe books out..this is going to be a ride....

Who was that famous guy who said "History isn't what you have been taught"....

Phippsburg History Center is with David Brody and 4 others.
52 mins ·
Erling Haagensen and Henry Lincoln in their 2006 published book, “The Templars’ Secret Island: The Knights, the Priest and the Treasure”, provided a survey plan depicting both the modern-era (ca. 1880s) and original (1325) Vestermarie Kirke on the island of Bornholm (Denmark). The authors noted – in the beginning of their discussion on the geometric/geodetic church alignments on the landscape of the island - that the older, now non-existent church, was “turned a few degrees from the true east-west line” (Haagensen & Lincoln 2006: 55).

Hmmm…so we checked it out.

As it turns out, the original Vestermarie Kirke was oriented on an axis that ranged from 281° to 288° azimuth, as derived from a sampling of the structure’s wall orientations illustrated on the survey.

This azimuth range corresponds to the April/August Equation of Time = Zero (EQoT=0) sunset azimuths.

We cross-checked the sunset azimuth for Easter proper in the year 1325, it was 284.32° - another good fit for an azimuthal alignment. However, the issue with Easter is that it jumps all over the calendar (http://www.dr-mikes-math-games-for-k...ate-tab…) and, resultingly, would result in a large range of sunset azimuthal alignments that, for any given latitude, would be of tremendous variance. For example, a sampling of 14th century Easter dates for the 55.105667° latitude of the Vestermarie Kirke would return the following (extreme ranges):
-23 March 1321, 273.40°
-25 April 1351, 293.72°

Again, we are forced to ask the simple question of “What was the significance of these “non-east to west” church alignments?”

The following Medieval Era churches have been identified as having alignments, or window placements, in consonance with the sunset azimuth that correspond to the Equation of Time = 0 even
-Eynhallow Kirke, Orkney Islands;
-Orphir Kirke, Orkney Islands;
-Vestermarie Kirke, Bornholm Island;

No Templar-constructed round churches in England, thus far, have been found to have an axis, or window, orientation that corresponds to an EQoT=0 event:


Haagensen, Erling, and Henry Lincoln. The Templars’ secret island: the knights, the priest and the treasure. London: Phoenix, 2006.

very nice pic and graphic layout.....


you might want to brush up on this....and yes, they were damn good and they used the mathematics of "Toledo, Spain" --- Arab, Jewish and Christian "scientists" in the medieval era....enjoy.....did they "know" spatial geometry.. oh yes they did....

Last edited by davu; December 29th, 2017 at 07:09 AM.
davu is offline  
Old January 2nd, 2018, 10:57 AM   #354

davu's Avatar
Joined: Jun 2010
From: Retired - This Mountain isn't on a Map
Posts: 4,078

HAPPY NEW YEAR FELLOW POLLSTERS----time to get into the dirt (rocks) of the KS (Kensington Rune Stone) and the NT (Newport Tower)..and a few others but for now we will concentrate on the TWO KEY NUMBERS (8 & 22) and TWO MEASUREMENTS that had to come true (and I mean within 2 dec. points of a degree of azimuth). The first has been covered....8 & 22 hours/mins of Ptolemy that got you to Alexandria and now the second; and that is the azimuth to the KS from the NT. Now we have to allow for the 700-800 time frame and the tilt of the earth (progression of the zodiac - There are two main forms of progression: Secondary progression or 'a-day-for-a-year' progression ; and Solar arc direction or 'a-degree-for-a-year' progression (I ask forgiveness as this is wiki)). Anyway, on with the show......Enjoy.


Phippsburg History Center
December 25, 2017 at 5:27pm ·
This research isn’t for the timid. If you think the answers are going to read like the microwave directions on a bag of popcorn, you are better suited to become a skeptic…or an academic. If you are inclined to think independently, have a streak of non-conformity in your veins, and have a healthy dose of reason and common sense then you are more than suited to follow – and understand – how the designers of the Newport Tower imbedded information INTO & ONTO the tower’s structure.

This entire Newport Tower research thread was really a personal journey to figure out if Scott Wolter was wrong in his analysis that the EGG – when viewed from the center of the interior of the tower proper – reflected an azimuth that corresponded with a geodetic alignment out to the Kensington Rune Stone. Scott had done a quick “back of the napkin” layout that put the EGG on an azimuth of 287° out to the KRS. It was close, but not quite spot on (the geodetic azimuth is actually 283.8°), but I don’t, and didn’t, have an issue with Scott’s analysis.

What ticked me off was the relentless criticism and dismissal that EVERYONE – especially the SKEPTICS and DEBUNKERS – did regarding the 287° value. The blogs were filled with lazy, fat-ass critics panning what Scott had written – WITH NONE OF THEM HAVING TAKEN THE TIME TO ACTUALLY VALIDATE, OR INVALIDATE, OBJECTIVELY what Scott had written with respect to the azimuth. How did I know this? Because NO ONE cited an exterior azimuth position value of the Red Granite Orb/Keystone (which corresponded to the EGG position on the interior of the tower as these rocks were in a back-to-back placement on the tower).

Scott can hold his own – as he has done for decades now – so this post isn’t a defense of his work. But his “back of the napkin” work was enough of an impetus for me, assisted by a bunch of Navy Master Chief’s up in Newport, to obtain azimuthal positions of landmarks on the exterior of the tower.
This post actually was a late development today…I was working some time value intervals between the large EGG and the MINI-EGG that corresponded well to the Alexandria, Egypt Prime Meridian (at the Library of Alexandria)-to-KRS Discovery Location longitude distance…and as part of that process I ran the 125.5° interval starting at the large EGG (283.238° to 289.429°) and then moving clockwise around the tower.

The 125.5° interval did NOT fall onto the MINI-EGG physical azimuth position on the tower – it ran well past it. It fell in the physical azimuth position of 48.738°-54.929° on the tower’s exterior.

This azimuth is EXACTLY where the white quartz cobble is situated in the NE quadrant of the tower.

Big deal…a 125.5° arc-length run on the exterior of the tower is guaranteed to land on another rock, right? Yep, it sure will!

This white quartz cobble has been previously identified as demarking the Summer Solstice Sunrise Azimuth AT THE KRS LATITUDE. In other words, this white quartz cobble is symbolically representative of the KRS sitting out in the middle of the North American continent.

If the white quartz cobble in the NE quadrant represents the KRS geodetic positioning, then what is 125.5° of longitude displaced from the KRS? That would be the Prime Meridian of Alexandria, Egypt…which is the reference Prime Meridian for the 8h, 22m longitude for the geodetic position of the KRS…from the Alexandria, Egypt Prime Meridian. In this permutation, the Alexandria PM is the EGG.

We have provided a slew of links to get folks up to speed on this latest find. The “Newport Tower Exterior Measurement” slides are pretty basic…you don’t need to drill down too deeply on them. The three groups of slides after the aforementioned are the ones that are important and, yeah, they aren’t the directions for your Orville Redenbacher bag of popcorn.

I have no doubts that I am not catching everything on the NT. No single person can possibly accomplish that. But if it can help you along with your research, then my time and effort has been of value.

The Newport Tower was purposefully designed. Within that design was an intent to convey information. Deconstruct the design and then see what presents.

Without the Kensington Rune Stone – its geodetic positioning and the geodetic allegory within its inscription – the Newport Tower would NEVER HAVE REVEALED ITS INFORMATION.
Newport Tower Exterior Measurements:






Newport Tower SW Quadrant Quartz Cobble to KRS Summer Solstice Sunrise Azimuth Intersect:

Newport Tower NE Quadrant Quartz Cobble to KRS Winter Solstice Sunset Azimuth Intersect:

Niche 3, the “Dark Niche” – a.k.a. the KRS LATITUDE NICHE








W6 & W7 Eyebrow (Venus) Window 8h, 22m Separation From Each Other:
No automatic alt text available.

As you can tell, we are compressing much information (2.5 years of research) and the use of several navy chiefs, etc etc. (who better then to discuss navigation with). Further reading is below....




and in case you don't already have these two little numbers (think pentagon)....and in the case of cost (always a question in research), get familiar with your nearby university library. We did.....




we'll be getting to Pliny shortly......is he involved personally, ah, NO he is not, but his books sure are......
davu is offline  
Old January 2nd, 2018, 11:01 AM   #355

davu's Avatar
Joined: Jun 2010
From: Retired - This Mountain isn't on a Map
Posts: 4,078

As a small side note with this research, one of the things I have done is to track the price on Amazon of some of the books used in this research. In a few of the cases, the prices have gone through the roof and they are approaching the stratosphere.....somebodies on to something here......just saying.

BUT not all is lost......here is a free one that is required reading...and it is built into the NT....


Last edited by davu; January 2nd, 2018 at 11:34 AM.
davu is offline  
Old January 2nd, 2018, 07:21 PM   #356

davu's Avatar
Joined: Jun 2010
From: Retired - This Mountain isn't on a Map
Posts: 4,078

Somemore reading -- this time --- the Library of Congress....

Phippsburg History Center
Page Liked · July 29, 2016 ·

Today's reading at the Library of Congress. I have been delving into these medieval age astronomy books looking for clues on how they established terrestrial longitude. The thin brown book second from the bottom proved to be a gold mine for that research thread. It has been very interesting to read how the collected knowledge of astronomy moved from the Hellenistic world to the Arab world and then began diffusing into Europe through Toledo, Spain in the 11th century via Jewish, Arab, and Catalian scholars. This diffusion lead to a veritable explosion of even greater astronomical knowledge beginning with the 14th century - which just so happens to align with the 1362 Kensington Rune Stone and 1401/1402 Spirit Pond Rune Stone dates. Bottom line, there was sufficient knowledge along with proven (and documented) accurate longitude measurements to easily support the contention that the KRS and SPR longitudes could be achieved. Not an invention on my part - it's written in the historical record by astronomers who don't even contemplate rune stones!

(wish I could post pictures, but alas.....NO --- but not all is lost --- the link)

Please proceed to cubicle #344 - your desired list is really for review.....


AND NO, we are not making this up....its written in authenticated documentation from the "medieval period"..... fortunately, we have some who can read a little Latin...

Last edited by davu; January 2nd, 2018 at 07:38 PM.
davu is offline  
Old January 2nd, 2018, 07:30 PM   #357

davu's Avatar
Joined: Jun 2010
From: Retired - This Mountain isn't on a Map
Posts: 4,078

And for those so inclined.....I said this going to get hot and heavy ---- very very heavy.....enjoy.....

Has anybody here heard of "Ashley Crowie" or "John Ritchie"....hummmm. AND I know people of heard of that old "St. Clair" standby --- Rosslyn Chapel and Temple Church.

OK, now you know what's coming.....I said to "hang on"......


Phippsburg History Center
Page Liked · October 23, 2016 ·

Temple Church
Temple Midlothian, Scotland

A few weeks back while doing research on the Rosslyn Chapel area, we ran across a newspaper article from 2009 which spoke of an unusual find, a possible sarcophagus top with some unique carvings on it.

In the article (http://www.scotsman.com/news/mystery...mplar-1-780538), John Ritchie, a historian and author, said that "The symbols at the bottom look like Viking sun compasses, while the dials at the top look a little bit like a Celtic cross but with notches carved on them."

The Temple Church is located less than four miles distant from the Rosslyn Chapel and used to be the former headquarters of the Knights Templar in Scotland prior to the Order being dissolved in the early part of the 14th century. Subsequently, the Temple Church became part of the Knights of St. John in Jerusalem. Ashley Cowie wrote of this in his 2016 ebook “Secret Viking Sea Chart Discovered in Rosslyn Chapel.”

[The Kindle version is still available on Amazon for only $6.99 and the Nook version from Barnes and Noble is the same price. There are other ebook versions out there and they all appear to be priced the same. I am a big fan of this book and I have recommended it many times previously.]

So I fired an email off to Ashley and asked him if he had any more information on this topic. The next day an email was in my inbox and he had passed me a link (http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/...a1-64057_2.pdf) to access a formal archeological report done by CFA Archeology in 2099. It was a fascinating read.

It also dated the unique sarcophagus lid to the late 12th century or early 13th century.

The left-hand illustration on the slide represents one of the sarcophagus covers that was found.

The very next day I am sludging my way through miscellaneous academic papers and books on sundials when I run across a paper, “Eine tragbare Sonnenuhr aus der Spätantike,” written by Karlheinz Schaldach and Ortwin Feustel and published in 2012 (

The paper discussed a portable sundial constructed between somewhere between 330 A.D. and 654 A.D. 22, with Greek lettering, and discovered in Samos, Greece. The sundial was capable of measuring time to the 60th part of an hour, or to minutes.

Whether the bottom carvings on the sarcophagus were based on the portable sundial design that was found in Greece, I can’t say. But as I look at the drawing…I am shaking my head up and down.

If one has a portable instrument that could determine time accurate to the 60th part of an hour, then measuring time is also possible, e.g., the start and length of eclipses, determining the rate of travel, determining the duration of daylight from sunrise to sunset, determining the duration of daylight from solar noon, determining the duration of time for a star to transit from its zenith to the horizon. All of these applications may be used in navigation.
-Cowie, Ashley. Secret Viking Sea Chart Discovered in Rosslyn Chapel. Alchemy International Publishing, 2016.
-Temple Kirkyard: Temple Midlothian (2009), CFA Archeology Ltd., The Old Engine House Eskmills Business Park, Musselburgh, East Lothian EH21 7PQ: Archaeology Data Service (distributor). Retrieved October 2016 from http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/...a1-64057_2.pdf
davu is offline  
Old January 3rd, 2018, 08:58 AM   #358

davu's Avatar
Joined: Jun 2010
From: Retired - This Mountain isn't on a Map
Posts: 4,078

Another little tidbit that is very important...this information came from somewhere...it wasn't made up.....so track it down....here is a start. Its important that a person knows where we are coming from.....




"The most important of the Toledan translators was undoubtedly Gerard of Cremona (1114-1187). Thanks to a brief notice left by his pupils on his life and work, we know that Gerard came to Toledo after finishing his studies in Italy, in order to learn more about the Almagest. This vast astronomical treatise by Claudius Ptolemaeus (Ptolemy), the celebrated second-century-AD Greek astronomer, mathematician and geographer, was then only available in Arabic. In fact gerard discovered a multitude of scientific works in Arabic in Toledo, and immediately began to learn the language so as to read them and, later, to render them into Latin. He ventually translated more than seventy of them, including the Almagest, which he completed in 1175."

This is a man who knew what he had in front of him, immediately, and we must thank him for his life's work...and the fact that the "christians" didn't burn down his library. For those following this, the word "Cremona" should ring a bell.....

Last edited by davu; January 3rd, 2018 at 09:00 AM.
davu is offline  
Old January 3rd, 2018, 09:02 AM   #359

davu's Avatar
Joined: Jun 2010
From: Retired - This Mountain isn't on a Map
Posts: 4,078

as noted.......enjoy


Phippsburg History Center added a new photo to the album: THE CRAZY SEASON, Volume 1.
February 3, 2017 ·
On the Cremona Document Nova Scotia Map (Halpern/Jackson/Unruh) there is a Temple of Solomon/Star of David symbol situated adjacent to the 45°15' N latitude line along with the word RHODON, or rose. It is a somewhat interesting mix of symbols and words. For starters, the association of the word "rose" along a line of latitude flies in the face of how we perceive "rose lines." Typically - and made famous by the fictional use of the term by Dan Brown in his novel "The Da Vinci Code" - we associate "rose lines" as a prime, or reference, meridian (of longitude).

That is...unless our interest lies not with longitude, but with latitude.

Coincidentally, the 45°15' N latitude line happens to be the position of the 8 hr, 22 min darkness band on the 24th of June in the time span A.D. 2660 to 2691. The 8-22 darkness band intersection with the 45°15' N latitude line occurs only when the Obliquity of the Ecliptic (OoE) is at its exact mid-point value of 23.3° (which corresponds to the solar declination being the same value).

In simple terms, when the Earth and Heavens (sun, zodiac, etc.) are precisely balanced at the mid-point of the OoE - an event that happens only twice during the 41,000 year cycle of the OoE (think axial tilt of the Earth) moving between 24.5° and 22.1° - the 45°15' N line of latitude has 8 hrs, 22 min of darkness on the 24th of June.

In the midst of all this stuff that is blowing our collective heads up, at the 45°15' N latitude the solstice sunrise and sunset azimuths butterly around the end point azimuths of the Temple of Solomon/Star of David symbol, as the slide illustrates.
Well over a year ago we stumbled upon the fact that the Vale Perkins/Owl's Head Mountain area in southern Quebec - the location of the world's only outdoor Masonic Lodge where, on June 24th every year, the members watch the sun rise and conduct their initiation ceremony - was the position of the 8-22 darkness band in a span of years beginning approximately in A.D.1315 and continuing until A.D.1915. (https://www.facebook.com/11433897864...type=3&theater)

The 8-22 darkness band's position on the Earth's surface moves as the obliquity of the OoE values cycle in its range of 24.5° and 22.1°. While the OoE range is 2.4°, the 8-22 darkness band tracks a smaller range of only 2° (it cycles north and south of the 45°15' N line of latitude by only 1° over the 41,000 year period).
By the way, the accurate 24.5° and 22.1° range of the OoE was not determined until 1908. This is ten years AFTER the Kensington Rune Stone was discovered by Olaf Ohman on his farm near Kensington, MN entangled within the roots of a poplar or aspen tree.

The entire basis for the investigative thread we have researched relating to the 8-22 darkness band (with its coincidental positioning at 45°15' N latitude - the RHODON line of the Cremona Document Map of Nova Scotia) is the 1898-discovered Kensington Rune Stone.
A 1910 report to Minnesota Historical Society commented on the age of the tree in whose roots the KRS was entangled:

"On being cut away the stump carrying the roots lay adjacent for some weeks and was seen and noted by several visitors. Estimates as to the size and age of the tree vary somewhat, some stating that it was at least ten years old and others that it was from twenty to thirty years old, and one estimating it as probably forty years old."

Unfortunately, the stump was disposed of prior to a scientific analysis being done to count the number of tree rings, thus determining the exact age of the tree.

However, as the 1910 report lays out further on, a comparative analysis was done to form a best estimate of the tree's age. These results were obtained from three principals (Olaf Ohman, his son Edward Ohman, and Mr. Samuel Olson) and the comparative age estimates of the tree growing over the KRS ranged from 31 years to 42 years.

1898 minus 31/42 returns date(s) of the tree initially taking root somewhere between 1856 and 1867.

Some have posited that the tree's age was as young as 10 years while others have it as old as 60 years.
More stuff is coming...and, yes, this ties into Phippsburg history because the Hooked X symbol is found not only on the Spirit Pond Rune Stones, but also on the Kensington Rune Stone as well as...the Cremona Document Nova Scotia Map.

We are getting ready to unzip this entire North American rune stone saga...it's coming...

"THE KENSINGTON RUNE STONE. Preliminary Report to the Minnesota Historical Society by its Museum Committee"

Cremona Document Map of Nova Scotia (previous post): https://www.facebook.com/11433897864...type=3&theater
No automatic alt text available.
davu is offline  
Old January 3rd, 2018, 09:12 AM   #360

davu's Avatar
Joined: Jun 2010
From: Retired - This Mountain isn't on a Map
Posts: 4,078

today is a good day.......sun's up and mild....I don't live on the east coast.....cheers. for reading and research pleasure --- Spain and Portugal.....


The Newport Tower is nothing but astronomical alignments - the model which almost certainly came out of Spain along the same line of latitude the NT is situated on:

Phippsburg History Center
Page Liked · November 18, 2016 ·

C-Document Map
Hey...I might not be in the know on the larger C-Document story but that didn't stop me from taking a detailed look at the map. Its construct is interesting in that the originator split Nova Scotia in two different segments, as Scott Wolter aptly pointed out. Although I can't recall running across a landform which was split up in a similar fashion on other maps, we do find evidence on Medieval Era maps (Zeno and some portolan maps) where landforms have been shifted from their actual geographic position to a place on the parchment where there was enough space to illustrate them. Might this suggest that the originator of this particular map split Nova Scotia because a) their parchment size was too small to depict Nova Scotia contiguously and b) they were limited in the amount of additional parchment sheets to construct a multi-sheet map? By extension, this could suggest an older construction date of the map. Speculation, but it has to be considered. For the most part, the overlay of the latitude & longitude lines onto the landform below along with the called-out longitude and latitude values, are fairly accurate. It isn't perfect by an stretch of the imagination. In the upper right-hand corner there is a Roman numeral sequence which totals 1179. This number is plausibly a date - and some have suggested that it is. Detractors rise up and say "No way" because the determination of longitude could not be done until the invention of an accurate mechanical clock in the late 17th century. I ignore these detractors because their research depth is one layer deep and is confined to Wikipedia. Keep in mind that the history of cartography is the layering of more accurate data layers as time progressed. Perhaps the first data layer of the map does extend back to 1179 - this most certainly can't be ruled out.

Many months ago in the Crazy Season thread I threw out the off-the-wall series of postings on the 8-22 darkness band running across southern Quebec in the Vale Perkins/Owl's Head Mt. area. The 8-22 number sequence was derived from the KRS numbers of 8 and 22 and which I contend are the longitude coordinates of the KRS positioning (8 hours, 22 minutes of celestial longitude to the west of the Ptolemaic Prime Meridian of Alexandria, Egypt)

The 45°15’ north latitude, rose[line?] label on the C-Document map that you see sits approximately 13 miles to the north of 8-22 darkness band. It isn't in it, but it is displaced less than one minute of time north. That offset is inconsequential when one considers the accuracy of gnomon, or sundial, latitude measurements. This 8-22 band sweeps across Nova Scotia, capturing the speculated tower ruins William Mann identified in the Hantsport, NS area, and then runs directly across Owl's Head Mt. on the western shore of Lake Memphemagog where the world's only outdoor Masonic Lodge is situated in a cleft of the mountain.

Interesting intersections all the way around.
The Crazy Season thread is clearly winding down here at the PHC. I have a couple of projects that deserve to be finished, but my motivation is lagging because they are complicated and will be time consuming. One is to explain the longitude scale on the c. 1424 Vienna Text coordinates - which is 56 2/3 English statute miles. How I can articulately write about a longitude unit being scaled to a dimension that historians say didn't exist at that time is going to be a doozy. I know how they did it - they just did a numbers reduction for simplicity's sake, but to convince you I am not hallucinating this stuff up makes me toss and turn at night. Another unfinished project is the Jerusalem rhumb line plotting. It exists, and I can see the geometric progression that was used, but again I am stepping on thin ice. To explain it I have to convince you that they determined longitude fixes using trigonometry...which is actually in the historical record but historians and cartographers don't talk about. Lastly, there is some Newport Tower stuff.

So while I procrastinate, I recommend that you consider following Scott Wolter's blog for a bit. I keep hinting that he is going to be covering some interesting ground as time moves along. I don't know the specifics, but seeing as how the debunkers are getting more and more animated from his recent blog posts...I think there is going to be a massive collision coming down the pike. Both sides are getting up a head of steam! — with Scott Wolter.
Show more reactions
Top Comments
14 14
David Ulrich
David Ulrich """Both sides are getting up a head of steam""". The difference is the other side has no factual proof. All they have is innuendo. They can't refute what you have done because they don't understand it. Owls Head has been on the books for years and years and the academics would have to give credence to something they have chosen to ignore. I Do Not understood all that you have done but then I also don't understand how they make plastic injection systems work either (it takes a lot of mathematics). I see the results and the math (trigonometry) and get that. The academics we are dealing with have no interest in exploration and anomalies. What it takes is someone to replicate what you have done from their own independent research. Something the academics are loath to do on their own time or as paid researchers as this requires them to submit grant money applications (which will get them fired and they know it). We have people posting here and other places that trash this navigation or Scott Wolter work but until they provide physical written on paper proof that your math is wrong, they are a complete nuisance. Damn here it is 8:15 pacific time as this is my first rant of the day --- cheers
LikeShow more reactions · Reply · 1y · Edited
Phippsburg History Center
Phippsburg History Center The Arab astronomers had determined the linear distance of one degree of latitude by the 10th century - it was 56 2/5 Arabic miles which is equivalent to 111.8 kilometers per degree. This value enabled them to establish the polar and equitorial circumference of the Earth at 40, 248 km. Remember that they understood the Earth to be a perfect sphere, therefore the polar and equitorial circumference were the same. Their value differed from the modern day EQUITORIAL circumference value by only 180 km (or 0.5 km per longitude degree traveled from a particular starting point). At the Equator this error is 0.44% of the total distance separating every single degree of longitude. At the 45th parallel of latitude, the error % in terms of the reduced distance separating a degree of longitude increases - it is 0.63% if the total difference. Can we "see" this in the coordinate data sets or drawn maps of the Medieval Era? No (at least I can't) - there were other possible sources of inaccuracy. If they knew the Earth's circumference dimensions, they could geometrically calculate a positional point at X angle and Y distance from their starting point. It was just geometry. This is just the beginning layer, Dave. Read this explanation - you will recognize the visual features of how this gentleman lays out his lecture...can you see how the the 1321 Vesconte World Map (circular with rhumb lines) plays into this...the depictions are effectively identical: http://facweb.bhc.edu/.../harwoodr/g...dy/longlat.htm

Richard Harwood's…
LikeShow more reactions · Reply · 1y
Phippsburg History Center
Phippsburg History Center Remember, the portolan maps all have an equirectangular grid...the longitude distance and latitude dimensions of the grid are the same dimension. This tells us that they had a value of the circumference of the Earth. The accuracy of how a rhumb line (l...See More
LikeShow more reactions · Reply · 1y
Phippsburg History Center
Phippsburg History Center What do we find on all portolans? The wind-rose, or points of wind. A sixteen point circle. This had nothing to do with the winds. It had everything to do with azimuth determination by astrolabe. In fact, on some of the portolans you can actually find the astrolabe illustrated as the wind-rose! The wind-rose (compass rose) on portolans had nothing to do with magnetic headings - it was all astrolabe.
LikeShow more reactions · Reply · 1y
Phippsburg History Center
Phippsburg History Center Dave, download this file and read it. Don't worry about stuff flying over your head. 97 pages of astronomical knowledge. Somewhere in this mix of superb mathematicians developed the mathematical knowledge. The Newport Tower is nothing but astronomical alignments - the model which almost certainly came out of Spain along the same line of latitude the NT is situated on: http://www.ub.edu/arab/suhayl/volums.../paper%201.pdf
LikeShow more reactions · Reply · 1y · Edited
David Ulrich

Write a reply...
Choose File
Scott Wolter
Scott Wolter You are quite right that a major collision is coming and have to say, I like our chances verses theirs. Stay tuned.
davu is offline  

  Historum > World History Forum > Ancient History

kensington, runestone

Search tags for this page
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.